The Loser Letters - Letter No. 3 »
Posted By SonOfTheMask 2 months, 2 weeks ago in NewsThe Trouble With Good Works - As I explained in my first Letter, I really do believe that one of the most important contributions I can make as a newly converted atheist is to let You know what is and isn't working for our Side when it comes to winning the so-called hearts and minds of the rest of our Species.
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SonOfTheMask
"I often wish that I could rid the world of the tyranny of facts. What are facts but compromises? A fact merely marks the point ...
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SonOfTheMask2 months, 2 weeks ago
FTA: "One big case in point is "good works," or the question of who is more likely to be on good behavior with the lesser members of the Species, Us or the believers. And here, as a matter of general strategy, I cannot stress enough something that some of You are just refusing to get: We Atheists are much better off emphasizing what the other Side has done wrong than anything we Brights have done right."
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Formidable2 months, 2 weeks ago
"Working for our side"? Tolerance and understanding go down the tubes when this occurs. My side, your side............ When will human kind realize we are one species that will benefit from mutual respect and communication?
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Dicax_Maximus2 months, 2 weeks ago
Simple & straightforward :- There are the good, the bad & the ugly in ALL religions, races, creeds & colours....
So what's new ?
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SonOfTheMask2 months, 2 weeks ago
God bless you, as well, GLee. Thank you for reading the article, voting, and commenting.
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RickyDawkins2 months, 2 weeks ago
"winning the so-called hearts and minds of the rest of our Species"
Said like a true believer.
Isn't that exactly what you are doing when you teach your children to worship the Local Deity?
Religion is divisive, "its us against them".
But everyone is an Atheist to some degree, since you don't believe in my Scripture and I don't believe in yours. (For example, The Book of Mormon, or Scientology, or Shinto)
Atheism however, is not about playing sides. We just want the faithful to use their minds, and not impose their Local Deity on us. After all, which religion is the right one?
http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents...
"Adherents.com is a growing collection of over 43,870 adherent statistics and religious geography citations. references to published membership/adherent statistics and congregation statistics for over 4,200 religions, churches, denominations, religious bodies, faith groups, tribes, etc."
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SonOfTheMask2 months, 2 weeks ago
"But everyone is an Atheist to some degree, since you don't believe in my Scripture and I don't believe in yours."
I would assert, to the contrary, that atheism is definitionally not subject to "degrees". Atheism rejects all gods. Belief in any god(s) or goddess(es) immediately moves you from a-theism to theism. Rejecting other deities due to belief in one (or several) others is not atheism in any sense of the word.
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RickyDawkins2 months, 2 weeks ago
Dictionary Definition:
http://encarta.msn.com/dictionary_/Atheist.html
"unbeliever in God or deities: somebody who does not believe in God or deities"
Do you believe in Zeus?
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RickyDawkins2 months, 2 weeks ago
There are many degrees of atheists.
http://mwillett.org/atheism/sects1.htm
Learn it. Love it.
"No, I do not respect the truly religious any more. Screw that, believing in absurdities should never command respect no matter how sincere, well-meant or traditional it may be. I respect the right of people to believe absurdities but I do not respect absurd beliefs or believers in the absurd as a class of people above other people."
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SonOfTheMask2 months, 2 weeks ago
"Atheism however, is not about playing sides. We just want the faithful to use their minds, and not impose their Local Deity on us. After all, which religion is the right one?"
That assertion is simplistic and patronizing. Certainly, there are many atheists who wish to coexist peacefully, each person to their own beliefs. However, just as their are militant theists that seek to impose their beliefs on others, so too are there militant atheists who wish to eradicate religion, viewing it as evil, and viewing the religious as intellectually inferior (i.e. "use their minds"). Many of these militant atheists are noted in the Loser Letters.
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RickyDawkins2 months, 2 weeks ago
To call my viewpoint patronizing, is also patronizing. But we have to start somewhere, I guess.
If I had a choice, I would choose atheism. I think its better.
I think that all religion is sort of a lie.
But I have been around long enough to see that many people rely on it. And are thus shaken when confronted with merely the concept of Atheism.
Can you concede the possibility that your God is fake?
That is a huge step in accepting atheists as your peers.
I think atheists should be allowed to condemn your religion as loudly as you preach it.
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KISA452a2 months, 2 weeks ago
Atheism is the lack of belief in any super arching philosophy except... Well, except nothing. OK, I have heard it is the belief in science. Neither science nor atheism can have a moral component, it has no "do this" or "do that" component. It is inherently opposed to the concept of good or bad since these concepts are against nature (go tell the cheatah it is evil for killing the antelope or the cat is evil for playing and tormenting the mouse).
By any definition, this is divisive because there is nothing cohesive to rally around. Religions are divisive from each other, but they are internally cohesive. Atheism is, by it's nature, divisive since it is based not on believing IN something, but simply disbelieving in something.
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DeadXXXManXXXTalkin2 months, 2 weeks ago
''By any definition, this is divisive because there is nothing cohesive to rally around.''
if there is nothing to rally around there would be no rallying into different camps and no fighting among those camps over who's right and wrong
monotheism is inherently divisive, which is ironic [only one God]
since most monotheistic religions claim a God beyond human senses, and everyone on earth is different, there of course can be no consensus on the nature of God, be he the one and only or not
and of course because he is One, of a necessity the different camps believe they got it right and everyone else is not only wrong, but WRONG
that is pretty undeniable stuff, if I may say so myself.
as for Atheism being divisive 'by nature' I can make not similarly cogent argument
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HannibalBarca2 months, 2 weeks ago
Well sometimes Christianity does it to itself; like what is happening in Boston
3 women will be ordained as Catholic priests only to have the Vatican excommunicate them.
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AlphaGnosisComment removed: User banned.1 Reply
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RickyDawkins2 months, 2 weeks ago
Well, as a newly converted Christian, I am gonna let you, My Fellow Christians in on a few secrets.
1. Atheists actually do have good morals, at least the ones I used to associate with. Of course God's way is better, but God is Guiding the atheists too, so we don't have to worry.
2. Atheists respond much better to those of us who don't wear our religion on our sleeve. A few "God Bless America's" is fine, but going around Praising Miracles makes them anxious. Its just good for us to know, as Christians, so we don't offend our Good brethren.
3. Atheists just don't understand how great Jesus was, so that argument won't fly.
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KISA452a2 months, 2 weeks ago
What morals? Based on what?
This is the fallacy I see in this argument. f you want to argue that there is no God, then there is no one/nothing to give morals. Morals, therefore, are either non-existant (who/what can define a moral?) or they are open for chance in the next 6 seconds. It seems rather easy to be moral when you define morals as "do what you want".
I can also understand the argument about atheists prefer religious folks who hide their religion. Similar to how most religious folks don't' care much about gays as long as they hide their gay-ness.
Any Christian who can't argue beyond "The Bible says so", or "Jesus told me", etc doesn't know enough to support their position. You have permission to ignore them since somewhere in the Bible (iirc) it says something along the lines of "Don't try to argue with unbelievers by saying "The Bible says so" or "Jesus told me"". Said tongue in cheek, but it's there somewhere.
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Tangent0012 months, 2 weeks ago
Some atheists might. Atheism has no overriding philosophy. Each athiest is different is what they affirm. Some may be Existentialists, some Rationalists, some Positivists, etc.
I suppose there may be some 'logicists' out there, but I wouldn't call the acceptance of a particular philosophy 'worship' in the first place.
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wtagg2 months, 2 weeks ago
I would find it hard to believe that God would be anything but (logic).
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TheRealizer2 months, 2 weeks ago
This Atheist belongs to no group, or subgroup, I simply do not think organized religion should have much influence where drafting laws is concerned.
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aceofspades12 months, 2 weeks ago
God is the invention of ancient ergot infused "prophets" who shouted their visions to the masses & our current state of religious fervor is the result of a primeval acid trip
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antibrainwasher2 months, 2 weeks ago
Why always heavenly "father". What is a heavenly father anyway. A floating head of Charleston Heston? Why not floating heavenly giant turd? An omniscient turd. Let's paint it green.
The heavenly father/turd floats down to earth by mental telepathy every once in a while to create a "son", (again, why not a daughter or a talking dinasaur) in "his" image.
Of course the jeeee(handlesnake)sus story is the exact same as the Roman emperor Agustus story, just insert a jew where the half man/half god's name occurs. Same as the egyptian pharos, same as the greek demi-gods.
The same group of people think the earth was created 4000 years ago by the baby jesus as think the baby jesus is on our side in Iraq.
Guess what morons, the baby jesus is not up there. There is and never has been any heavenly anything. Nothing up there but an absolutely cold vacuum.
Kind of like the vacuum between your evangelical tribalist ears.
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antibrainwasher2 months, 2 weeks ago
Why, oh great evangelical idiots, did god select a jewess to father his half jew/half god. Why not a chinese? Why not an irishman, since heavenly father is always depicted as an Irish featured long haired white skinned man.
What was an Irish man doing in the middle east? Was god irish, and mating out of his tribe? Good for you god, scoring some jewish poontang.
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Natureboy2 months, 2 weeks ago
"What was an Irish man doing in the middle east? Was god irish, and mating out of his tribe?"
RU Kiddin? He was democratizing them.
Christian belief, the real christian belief, is what our society is patterned on. There's this older white male authority figure in the sky, see, he loves us all, as long as we do what we are told without questioning, but if we question, or fail to follow the rules, he will send us somewhere terrible and torture us forever.
Abu Ghraib and Gitmo, christian at the core.
He made a white male kind of like himself (but punier, god don't like competition) and made him the ruler of earth. This white male got bored and horny, though, so he made a woman to entertain him, cook his dinners and get his nut.
Sexism and patriarchy, christian at the core.
And so it goes. GWB, a god on earth. Have you accepted GWB as your personal saviour?
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RickyDawkins2 months, 2 weeks ago
We agree that the being called Zeus in the Greek mythos is unlikely to exist. Though we probably would have believed in Zeus if we had lived in ancient Greece
We are skeptical about the thousands of religions and Gods which mankind has worshiped throughout history. (The one exception being our own chosen or indoctrinated religion)
We agree that the most correct faith (or ideology) is the one that we follow. Common sense requires that we follow the religion we believe.
You are skeptical about 4,000 religions. I am skeptical about 4001 religions.
"In other words, if you are a Christian, you probably don't believe in the existence of Allah, Vishnu or any of the myriad of other gods that people have followed throughout history. I don't believe in those gods either, so in this sense I'm not all that different to you. The only small difference is that I believe in one less God."
http://mexc.blogspot.com/2007/10/i-believe-in-o...
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