The Wars of Religion Return (by Pat Buchanan) »
Posted By SonOfTheMask 3 months, 1 week ago in NewsLast week's clash between Dr. James Dobson and Barack Obama is but the latest skirmish in a war that dates back to the time of Christ. At issue: What is Christian truth? Does the true Christian put social peace ahead of his duty to make God's Law man's law?
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SonOfTheMask
"I often wish that I could rid the world of the tyranny of facts. What are facts but compromises? A fact merely marks the point ...
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Comments So Far: 105
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Candida3 months, 1 week ago
No, anybody who finds something evil in society, whether it is abortions or war, should protest it. As long as that protest is peaceful and within the law, nobody should object.
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ind063 months, 1 week ago
I guess that depends on a person's definition of "manifest evil".
If you asked ME to give an example of manifestly evil behavior I'd think of the death camps, of Nazis drowning prisoners in buckets of human waste and laughing while they did it. I'd think of serial killers raping and murdering women and children because they can't get off any other way. This, to me, is manifest, or, plainly seen EVIL.
To Pat manifest EVIL is two guys saying "I love you so much being with someone else would be nothing but a misery. I want to publicly declare my love for you above all others and live with you until the day I die."
I think we are seeing evil very differently, Pat and I.
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donotdoubt3 months ago
If you asked ME to give an example of manifestly evil behavior I'd think of the death camps, of Nazis drowning prisoners in buckets of human waste and laughing while they did it. I'd think of serial killers raping and murdering women and children because they can't get off any other way. This, to me, is manifest, or, plainly seen EVIL.
You seem to associate "manifest evil" with senseless killing, so let me add one - abortion!
I believe this is in alignment with the article.
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SonOfTheMask3 months, 1 week ago
FTA: "The unbridgeable divide between the two portends a troubled future. Can Americans ever come together if we are divided in our deepest beliefs about morality and truth, where one side believes gay marriage is moral progress, the other holds it a moral outrage; where one side views abortion to be a mighty advance for women's freedom, the other sees it as legalization of mass slaughter of unborn babies?"
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aniokly3 months, 1 week ago
Americans may falter in their individual beliefs about abortion, and gay marriage, but in the end we will still be a Country that believes in traditional marriage, and we are still a country against gay marriage. And Obama is still not the new Messiah.
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HmacComment removed: User banned.16 Replies
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ranchhandComment removed: User banned.28 Replies
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Wolfie20073 months, 1 week ago
Actually, Hmac "the winds of change are blowing"? Abortion is becoming less and less acceptable to Americans. When it comes to "gay marriage" there has been no change in their opinion and they overwhelming say "no". There is also nothing new in the way the issue is being pushed to the federal courts to make it a law by fiat, ala, Roe vs. Wade.
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canadianrancher573 months, 1 week ago
The problem I have with stories like this one that people like Mr. Dobson has a group of followers who support him and his beliefs and he feels that his interpretation of the bible is the right. and Barack Obama is running for pres and he thinks that his ideas are right. It does not matter whether you practice an organized religion or just have beliefs it comes down to your understanding of the scriptures.
When it comes to politics and religion the candidates should have to answer three questions that I consider important. 1) Do you believe in abortion, 2) Do you believe in capital punishment, 3) what conditions do you believe should happen before our country goes to war.
I feel that a honest answer to these questions would give a person an idea on how the candidate felt about life, law and order, and the saftey of the nation. The answers to these questions might give us a view of the persons beliefs and maybe we would get some people who were responsible enough to be leaders.
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sailr3 months, 1 week ago
The problem is the fanatical right evangelicals which Dobson represents have supported Bush the murderer in the white house although he is responsible for killing hundreds of thousands in the Middle East including almost 5,000 of our bravest and finest.
Just the fact alone that they have supported the neocons makes them repugnant in my opinion. Jesus would definitely not approve of them!
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ranchhandComment removed: User banned.
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Endoscopy3 months ago
This is where you get out the Bible and see who is telling the truth. There are areas that are confusing but most of it is rather clear. The topics that Dr. Dobson talked about are very clear. Read it for yourself. When quoting it you should do your homework and look at other texts that have to do with the same subject.
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Endoscopy3 months, 1 week ago
There has been a method of separating the Christian from the non Christian who calls themselves one. The Creeds are designed to separate the wheat from the chaff.
They allow a lot of leeway in a lot of looking at the Bible. That has caused splits in the Church going back to Armenians and also the Great Schism. However they cover the essentials of the faith. Who and what Jesus did and why.
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tkyrchncs3 months, 1 week ago
Our government is secular. Our laws involve ETHICS derived from the principles of freedom to the limit of physical or financial harm to others. Your morality is your own business, and there is no religious test to hold any office in the United states. Our government, having no creed, is AMORAL. It needs to remain that way, and I feel even more strongly about any person trying to turn his religion into the law of the Nation that many here feel about homosexuality. I will resist any such attempts at the level necessary to prevent their success.
There is NO Christian duty to make man's laws conform to God's. Our Savior gave us but two commandments, and they have NOTHING to do with any government or with any prohibitions of any sort; they both command direct, positive, PERSONAL and SPIRITUAL action.
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SonOfTheMask3 months, 1 week ago
We must use the term "moral" differently. Morality is synonymous to ethics. In fact, I think ethics is often defined as either the study of morality or a set of moral codes. So, there can be a religious moral code and a societal moral code, I think. I completely disagree that our government should be amoral (now, some might argue that certain governments have been amoral, but whether it SHOULD be amoral is a different question).
I think the definitional ambiguity of the term "morality" often brings unnecessary conflict to discussions like these. I absolutely believe that our government should be moral...but not a morality defined by a particular religion's creedal statements.
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tkyrchncs3 months, 1 week ago
Some distinguish ethics, what is right or wrong based on reason, from morals, what is considered right or wrong behavior based on social custom. That is the distinction I intended. In many cases these overlap: theft, murder, etc. In many cases they do not. Therefore the above stated ETHICAL limit on behavior to that which causes physical damage or financial loss to others. Behavior which violates social custom (including dominant religious belief) should remain outside consideration of the law if it causes no physical or financial harm.
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tkyrchncs3 months ago
What you say of ethics and morals is only the current usage among Christians. There are many ethical philosophies that involve NO religion, whereas most religions prescribe a moral code involving all sorts of things that have nothing whatever to do with relations with your fellows, which is all secular government has any legitimate interest in.
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Endoscopy3 months ago
The founding fathers of this country have a slight disagreement with you. This has been a Christian nation long before we were independent. Christian ethics were understood to be needed in this country if our form of government was to stand. They felt that if we went away from Christianity then the government would eventually fail. The reason being is that is expected that the large majority would live up to the Christian ethic. Without that crime would rise and the people who would not be criminals would have no base to their ethics. Therefore what is right for one is wrong for another. You are seeing this today with situation ethics. People are suing over trivialities. A lot of people are out for what they can get ethical or not. This burdens the government to make more and more laws and the end result is very unwieldy. We are seeing this more and more.
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sailr3 months, 1 week ago
You see what religious fanaticism has brought to the world of Islam...yet you want the same thing here with the fanatical religous right wing evangelicals. They and their ilk should not be given any credence in any intelligent discussion nor should they be allowed anywhere near any government policy!
KEEP RELIGION OUT OF POLITICS! Separation of church and state!
I don't go to your church and tell you how to run it and you should not go to my government and tell them how to run it. Keep your brainless little flock in fear and milk them for their hard earned dollars. THAT is what you are really good at. KEEP IT IN YOUR CHURCH. I don't need or want to hear about it.
I was raised in the fire and brimstone evangelical Baptist church. As soon as I could, I ran like hell!
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ranchhandComment removed: User banned.
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Itachirumon3 months, 1 week ago
Thank God you did, we're glad to see you escaped... I'd just like to see the first person you told that sailr
"Oooohh....You're from a Baptist family?..... Well then here, this is a science book from a nonreligious high school, this stuff around us that they told you was Angelic Aura? It's called "Gravity".... here.... You probably have a lot to say so I'll go get you a keyboard? Oh I'm sorry, writing paper... You wouldn't know a computer yet huh"
And btw just in case you think I'm insulting you? I'm not.
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Itachirumon3 months, 1 week ago
And Ranch, it was funny how hell was the third thing YOU said? Seee? HAHAHAHA funny! FUNNY STUFF
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chuck-the-canuck3 months, 1 week ago
"we all will answer one day for every idle word we say."
Nice thought, but highly unlikely.
Why is it in most areas of life, most people understand the concept " if it's too good to be true it's probably a lie", and loose the ability when it comes to religion.
Eternal life in paradise, reward of the righteous, punishment of the evil. Yeah right.
Beware of shady people selling time shares and bridges. Beware of shady people selling pixie twaddle and calling it inspired truth.
Looking for justice. It's up to mankind to provide that, as best it can. So far our record hasn't been too good.
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canadianrancher573 months, 1 week ago
mcarpentry-I would like you to answer a simple question. From my above comment do you think I am, 1)pro or anti abortion, 2) pro or anti capital punishment and 3)pro or anti war. If you do reply to this I will post my honest feelings on all three.
Thanks.
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kedirian3 months, 1 week ago
"Last week's clash between Dr. James Dobson and Barack Obama is but the latest skirmish in a war that dates back to the time of Christ"... WHICH PROVES ONCE AGAIN THAT RELIGION IS A DIABOLICAL PLOT AND COVER FOR POLITICAL WARFARE!
With its promises of a "hereafter" and the Second Coming of a Messiah, so prominent in the Jewish tradition, Christianity is in essence a movement that in the absence of overwhelming military might resorted to a "spiritual" movement complete with intimidation (Mortal sin, etc.) and a sexual ethos and "religious" duty geared to increase its ranks not only in numbers but in adherence to its ideology as well. Hence. Christianity's almost knee-jerk disgust of homosexuality!
Thus, Global Warming and its deleterious effects....
Whereas it would be a much better and much more peaceful world - for ALL forms of Life! - with FEWER humans around!
Of course, fewer humans would mean fewer, if any wars,...
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kedirian3 months, 1 week ago
... and fewer people wouls also mean a much better and much more equitable reward for human LABOR!
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kedirian3 months, 1 week ago
According to Christians and their Bible, if the Holy Ghost does NOT blow over you and give you his Grace, you cannot and will not believe.....
Of course, it helps if the Government can "force" you to believe by making your Life so difficult via its Christian-inspired/compelled? laws!
The problems now is that Christianity has many (some forked) tongues, so even the Government becomes confused...
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