Religion – Local atheist groups have announced that they are planning to protest Georgia Governor Sonny Perdue as he meets with local religious leaders to pray for rain.
Apparently these atheists feel that politicians are not allowed to be religious.
I'm just upset because they aren't going to have a native indian perform a rain dance too.
What do hindu's have to do with this?
As a Cherokee Indian I take offense to your sophomoric attempt at humor. If it isnt humor you are attempting I will assume that your response, like most of your previous, is completely without merit.
As far as politicians being religious, please, that is a tool that they all use to manipulate their base in an attempt to comply with emotions needed by the feeble for sustainability.
If you feel that a public display of religious behavior is in some way more effective than a private, self-invoked plea for help, then you are nothing more than sold-out hook-line-&-sinker consumer of righteousness.
Look at Fundamentalist Davey's post below. He wants to liquify all 'non-believers' of public displays of summoning the great one, the man upstairs, the big guy in an effort to marginalize logic.
THATS what I call righteousness!
"As a Cherokee Indian..."
I'm not calling you a liar, well I'm not really sure how to finish this. You know how many peeple I have met that call themselves "Cherokee Indians"? Many. You know how many of those actually were? Not one. You know how many Native Americans I know that happen to be Cherokee who would jump all over you for referring to them as Indians? I grew up the son of an Archeaologist who spent everyday after school and every weekend at work with her, and have been to many reservations. Not to mention that my great grandparents are in the city of Roswell's history book for having the first general store that would trade to both whites and Natives.
And David Halkos post was a joke. Pretty funny one at that.
HA! I see.....a faux Indian.
Your indoctrination into the Rush Limbaugh school of slander must have been the catalyst to your insight.
Your pathetic attempt to turn your own racist remarks into a cause concerning the legitimacy of my heritage is just what I would expect from someone devoid of rational or critical thinking skills.
Now that is thinking outside the box. Maybe a little too far outside the box. Would you really want that in your drinking water? ;-D
Im shure glad you ken laugh along with Davey.
For a while - I thouoght you were a Christian.
Now I realize you are simply a member of a evil, right wing hate group - called the Neo-Cons!
And hey! Im right there with ya!!
WE gotta keep thinkin of ways to sow hatred in our country.
And there aint NEVER been an ideeologie that was more adept at pullin the most hateful things out of the dark, fearful recesses of Right Wing Craaaazy.
Ah, I see the Christian spirit of Inquisition is alive and well in you, Halko.
It is quite refreshing that you are not hiding behind all that Jesus tolerance BS anymore and flying your true psycho colors.
Youll have to excuse Davey!
Hes just beginin to realize that the nation now understands that just because you SAY you is a Christian - it dont mean you ARE a Christian.
Think about what Neo-Cons believe in. Cuttin back spendin on military hospitals, cuttin back fundin on childrens medical inshurance, supportin legislation that cuts whole segments of society off from civil rights, - startin pre-emptive wars based on outright lies, supportin a deconstruction of the Constitution - etc. etc. etc.
Unfortunately, our Born Again Presdient is no Christian. Hes the OPPOSITE of Christian.
In fact - he has done more harm to Christianity throughout the world than that Hitchens fella.
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This is nuts.
A group of politicians praying for rain publicly doesn't force an atheist to do any action against his will.
The atheists don't want separation of church and state, they want separation of church FROM state.
Hopefully, there will be a cloudburst that will rain on the atheists parade.
You are right. This IS nuts!
If not to pray for rain why were those politicians elected?
"Hopefully, there will be a cloudburst that will rain on the atheists parade."
Then you better hope the protest doesn't get canceled or rescheduled. Maybe you should pray for it.
" If not to pray for rain why were those politicians elected?"
Politicians are elected to perform a variety of duties, Mr. One Note Pony. If all they did was pray for rain, you would have an issue.
"Then you better hope the protest doesn't get canceled or rescheduled"
Frankly, my friend, I don't give a tinker's damn.
"Politicians are elected to perform a variety of duties"
Tell me, oh great defender of rainmakers and hoodoo scam artists, any one of these duties is praying for rain? How about doing something rational to help resolve the existing crisis? Something that is known to work? And please explain to me were the politicians elected to represent only the Christians in their states or everyone?
Mr. One Note Pony? What is it that you are accusing me of? That I haven't fulfilled some arbitrary obligation that your mind has concocted?
"Frankly, my friend, I don't give a tinker's damn."
You don't give a damn? Could have fooled me, considering that you were the one who was hoping for a cloudburst. Don't go flip-flopping on me now, Stephen.
"any one of these duties is praying for rain? How about doing something rational to help resolve the existing crisis?"
One doesn't preclude the other, Mr. One Note Pony. Do you really think that praying for rain is all they're doing to cope with the drought?
"Mr. One Note Pony? What is it that you are accusing me of? "
Take a guess, Sherlock
Engaging in irrational behavior certainly precludes seeking rational solutions of the crisis at least at the particular moment. One cannot be both rational and irrational at the same time, at least in this reality.
"Do you really think that praying for rain is all they're doing to cope with the drought?"
From 11:45am to 12:30pm on Tuesday that is all they are doing to cope with the drought, yes. That and pandering to their religious constituencies, of course.
"Take a guess, Sherlock"
Sorry, but the alternate reality in which your warped mind resides and where you think you are talking to someone named Sherlock, is not accessible to me.
"From 11:45am to 12:30pm on Tuesday that is all they are doing to cope with the drought, yes"
Any time before or after doesn't count then, does it, Mr. One Note Pony? The drought is restricted to that time frame?
"Sorry, but the alternate reality in which your warped mind...."
Infinitely preferable to your warped mind alternate reality where action against the drought can only be taken from 11:45am to 12:30pm on Tuesday.
"where you think you are talking to someone named Sherlock"
A slip up. I should have said Mr. One Note pony.
"Any time before or after doesn't count then, does it"
Tell me what it is they are doing before and after then. I think after the prayer they might break for lunch. I've heard that also works well to combat droughts. That and golf, of course.
"The drought is restricted to that time frame?"
Apparently so. If prayer is so effective at countering it I'm guessing that the politicians would have kept praying.
"Infinitely preferable to your warped mind alternate reality where action against the drought can only be taken from 11:45am to 12:30pm on Tuesday."
I'll take your word for it. I imagine it has all kinds of magical absurdities like laws of physics suspend on command, it's possible to be both rational and irrational at the same time, you're talking to someone named Sherlock or Mr. One Note Pony, I don't think you can tell anymore, not that matters to you, and you don't give a damn about the protest.
You can continue the fruitful exchange without me.
"You can continue the fruitful exchange without me."
It would have been more fruitful if you had read this first:
http://tinyurl.com/2pdg3j
Then you could be an atheist without being a horse's ass, Mr. One Note Pony.
Hat tip: icelander
A comforting thought for the protesting atheists.......
Jaaaayyyyyyysssssuuuussss loves you!
You can come up with any excuses you want, but fact of the matter is that you were the one who poisoned the well from the get go and used ad hominem ever since.
The idea that you were remotely interested in a fruitful exchange of any kind is patently ridiculous. Those who insult from the first response aren't interested in rational discourse.
Oh, and I don't expect you to grasp the irony of calling others a horse's ass, after insulting them in every post.
Have a good day.
"You can continue the fruitful exchange without me."
I knew that you weren't finished - your colossal ego has to get in the last word. You can have it now if you want.
Perhaps the politicians could enlist the aid of more experienced rain prayers.
A novel prayer to appease rain gods
Since Tirunelveli is yet to receive good rainfall during the current monsoon, while almost all northern districts are struggling to come out of floods, farmers here have started their prayers to appease the Rain Gods.
In a bid to attract the attention of the Almighty, a group of youths of Muthukrishpaneri near Alangulam staged `Mulaipaari kummi' in their village recently after offering special prayers to Mariamman, Kaliyamman, Sri Ramar, Sita and Sri Anjaneya.
Though this famous rural art is generally practised by women, the youths' dance might have placated the gods and goddesses as the areas around Muthukrishnaperi received some rains....
http://www.hindu.com/2005/11/09/stories/2005110...
No, but to pray for rain, publicly and as part of one's office as Governor, is an endorsement of religion and a breach of the separation between church and state.
Ammendment 1
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
Why do you want to stop the constitutional right of free exercise thereof? It is his right to privately or publicly exercise his right to practice his religion.
"It is his right to privately or publicly exercise his right to practice his religion."
As a private individual, yes, but within the scope of his public office and as an endorsement of ANY religious perspective including atheism, no.
Please assimilate the distinction between engaging in your free exercise of religion AS AN INDIVIDUAL versus using public office to foist your views on others.
Red Herring alert!
"As a private individual, yes, but within the scope of his public office and as an endorsement of ANY religious perspective including atheism, no."
Try re-reading the First Amendment:
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"
Perdue didn't pass any law to engage in his attempt at rainmaking. Heck, he can't - he's an executive, not a legislator.
"Please assimilate the distinction between engaging in your free exercise of religion AS AN INDIVIDUAL versus using public office to foist your views on others."
Foist it on who? The protestors? Nobody will prevent them from protesting, unless they try to interrupt the prayer vigil. Freedom of speech works two ways.
Exactly. Perdue is an EXECUTIVE, therefore how exactly is he going to execute anything in his capacity as governor that has not been passed by the legislature?
Where is the governor allowed to call prayer meetings?
"Where is the governor allowed to call prayer meetings?"
Where does it say that he can't? Are there laws that say when he can eat, sleep or have sex? The idea that all of a governor's actions are controlled by laws, even those he does in public, is preposterous. Separation of powers requires some independence of the executive branch from the legislative. If the atheists think what Perdue is doing is unconstitutional and that they have a case, they should take him to court, not waste their time protesting.
"Where does it say that he can't?"
I direct you to the Georgia Constitution. It explicitly lists the powers of the Georgia governor.
http://sos.georgia.gov/elections/constitution_2...
SECTION II.
DUTIES AND POWERS OF GOVERNOR
Paragraph I. Executive powers.
Paragraph II. Law enforcement.
Paragraph III. Commander in chief.
Paragraph IV. Veto power.
Paragraph V. Writs of election.
Paragraph VI. Information and recommendations to the General Assembly.
Paragraph VII. Special sessions of the General Assembly.
Paragraph VIII.
Paragraph IX. Appointments by Governor.
Paragraph X. Information from officers and employees.
Hmm, not seeing "Represent the people to God", so under his public capacity, Perdue has no business promoting religion. Now look I know Cons HATE Constitutions, but could we at least pretend they are suppose to mean something?
Listing the Georgia constitution does not prove that Perdue can't invoke prayer meetings. As I said earlier, the executive branch isn't a lackey of the legislative branch, but a coequal part of the US government. The notion that the founders intended the legislature to micromanage the actions of the executive is silly.
"Hmm, not seeing "Represent the people to God", so under his public capacity, Perdue has no business promoting religion"
Then take him to court for violating the Georgia Constitution. The fact that no legal challenge is being taken here - only a half assed protest by the usual suspect malcontents - speaks volumes.
"Listing the Georgia constitution does not prove that Perdue can't invoke prayer meetings."
It does when the section is listed as "DUTIES AND POWERS OF GOVERNOR".
By all means, please list where in the GA Constitution that it says the Governor is the "Head Pontiff" of Georgia. It doesn't, so he needs to keep his office out of such affairs. Perdue is more than free to do it as a private citizen.
Again, Cons show "rule of law" is just something useful when it is to their political advantage. The hypocrisy is not a surprise.
The (Georgia) governor's oath:--
"I, A B, elected governor of the State of Georgia, by the representatives thereof, do solemnly promise and swear that I will, during the term of my appointment, to the best of my skill and judgment, execute the said office faithfully and conscientiously, according to law, without favor, affection, or partiality; that I will, to the utmost of my power, support, maintain, and defend the State of Georgia, and the constitution of the same; and use my utmost endeavors to protect the people thereof in the secure enjoyment of all their rights, franchises, and privileges; and that the laws and ordinances of the State be duly observed, and that law and justice in mercy be executed in all judgments."
Cont
"And I do further solemnly promise and swear that I will peaceably and quietly resign the government to which I have been elected at the period to which my continuance in the said office is limited by the constitution. And, lastly, I do solemnly swear that I have not accepted of the government whereunto I am elected contrary to the articles of this constitution; SO HELP ME GOD.""
My next post in this thread after this will be a link to the prayer session after it happens, if available. If not, this thread is dead, Fred, and I won't return. Have fun posting why Perdue can't do what he will do.
What's your point exactly? Let's see - "execute the said office faithfully and conscientiously, according to law, without favor, affection, or partiality;" Sounds like the governor has to follow the Georgia Constitution and it statutes.
Again you failed to point out where the governor in an official capacity may call a prayer meeting. You can't just post something without explaining how it benefits your argument.
You've also already shown yourself to be a Con who has no regard for the rule of law. There's no need to embarrass yourself any further.
http://www.ajc.com/services/content/metro/stori...
"Gov. Sonny Perdue can only hope his prayer vigil for rain today is as successful as the one another governor held on a Sunday morning in the summer of 1986.
The state was going through a historic drought that year, and then-Gov. Joe Frank Harris sent out a proclamation asking for Georgians to pray for rain.
"It didn't rain much that day, but the next week, it started raining. We had several weeks of almost daily rains," Harris said "People started calling the governor's office saying, 'Ya'll turned this water on, we've had enough!' ""
http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/stories/...
Perdue asks crowd to 'pray up a storm'
Drought is message from God to conserve better, governor says
By JAMES SALZER, JIM GALLOWAY
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Published on: 11/13/07
More than 250 faith-filled Georgians joined Gov. Sonny Perdue outside the Capitol this morning to pray for the rain needed to end the area's historic drought.
Perdue asked them to "reverently and respectfully pray up a storm."
Perhaps you can elighten us and the 50-some state and territorial governors as to when they are permitted to pray? And where, and to whom? Many governors and presidents have called for state/national days of prayer and/or fasting by the religious citizens, according to their own modes of worship. There is absolutely nothing unconstitutional about it. Those who are not religious are never required to participate. How silly.
Stephen Johnson: "The atheists don't want separation of church and state, they want separation of church FROM state."
What's the difference? Whether the state is separated from the church, or the church from the state, or the two from each other, the end result is the same: the separation of church and state.