Religion – Large groups and majorities believe in a personal God, an afterlife, Bible stories, the Devil, Heaven and miracles. There is a very low level of scientific literacy about human evolution in America when compared to other developed nations. PZ's bigotry is informed because PZ's blog has been documenting the great amounts of ignorance, delusion...
I sometimes wonder if it is tolerance that brings about these wars of reason. A recent article speaks of how opinions that are constantly repeated to an audience become fact, even if they are completely unproveable and against rational thought. By tolerating the opinions that we know to be incorrect we create confusion, a confusion of knowledge, which leads to this type of heated running argument.
Nicely written article.
Bigotry will always exist. Does that make it OK? Absolutely not. We ALL have this problem to some extent. Take Nazi's for instance. They believed whites with blue eyes were superior. If we all looked exactly the same we would discriminate based on location, height, age, ect. This is all human nature. Religion is no different. Every religion believes their god is superior and if you don't follow their form of worship you are not going to heaven. This is crazy when you think about it. Everyone know right from wrong for the most part. This is God's will written on your heart and in the soul. Belonging to a group, whatever it is will bring out the worst in people when it comes to bigotry. Everyone knows bigotry is wrong except when it comes to their own bigotry. Like I said everyone has this problem. We just don't like to admit it.
From Wikepedia
A bigot is a prejudiced person who is intolerant of opinions, lifestyles, or identities differing from his or her own.
I guess bigotry of the Intellegent Atheist is okay since they are right and everyone else is wrong. As long as this intolerance is words only I can be tolerant of it. But many atheists have gone beyound that in history. Just as many Christians have been bigoted down through history.
Personally I have the philsophy live and let die. You see I will not try to force anyone to beleive anything. If that causes them to die that is their own fault. I can talk to them reaons with them present evidence but it is their choice. So I am not a bigot. But atheist at least here find it okay for them to be bigots.
For example, if you think that slavery is okay or if you think that homosexuality is a sin, then you are a bigot. Or if you think that atheism is wrong, then you are a bigot. If you think that scrambled eggs are inherently better than fried eggs, then you are a bigot.
(p.s. it's spelled wikipedia, believe, intelligent, reasons, beyond)
Good point. There is no objective truth to opinion. Cultural practices and tastes change over time, and with it morality and judgement of others. But there was a man who said, "judge not lest ye be judged". Ricky is stretching my tolerance pretty far. I don't approve of homosexuality, but I tolerate it. If Ricky can't tolerate People of Faith, maybe I needn't tolerate transvestites, either?
What goes around comes around, Ricky.
Ricky you are not balanced in your approach to the fact regarding God and the Bible. He is perfect and His people are not. He must deal with them to correct their evil ways. IF you want to see how God truly views His people look at Isaiah 63. His view of His people is they're stiff-necked evil idolators. Don't judge God and His word by man. Make an honest assessment. Look at the Bible in the Original languages and discern who God is for yourself. Quit attacking without studying your subject. You are saying it's is God's fault things are as they are? His peoples? He indicates we are the problem. Read and see which you think is the problem. There is the problem. Draw near to God he'll draw near to you. Look to the Lord and ask. You seem afraid to go one on one in the Bible with God and what He says. It might be it is not very joyous reading. Hearing what he says about humanity is not best seller material.
If the Bible was divinely inspired, then why would it have so many really obvious contradictions?
Theological doctrines:
1. God is satisfied with his works
Gen 1:31
God is dissatisfied with his works.
Gen 6:6
2. God dwells in chosen temples
2 Chron 7:12,16
God dwells not in temples
Acts 7:48
3. God dwells in light
Tim 6:16
God dwells in darkness
1 Kings 8:12/ Ps 18:11/ Ps 97:2
4. God is seen and heard
Ex 33:23/ Ex 33:11/ Gen 3:9,10/ Gen 32:30/ Is 6:1/
Ex 24:9-11
God is invisible and cannot be heard
John 1:18/ John 5:37/ Ex 33:20/ 1 Tim 6:16
5. God is tired and rests
Ex 31:17
God is never tired and never rests
Is 40:28
9. God is unchangeable
James 1:17/ Mal 3:6/ Ezek 24:14/ Num 23:19
God is changeable
Gen 6:6/ Jonah 3:10/ 1 Sam 2:30,31/ 2 Kings 20:1,4,5,6/
Ex 33:1,3,17,14
10. God is just and impartial
Ps 92:15/ Gen 18:25/ Deut 32:4/ Rom 2:11/ Ezek 18:25
God is unjust and partial
Gen 9:25/ Ex 20:5/ Rom 9:11-13/ Matt 13:12
11. God is the author of evil
Lam 3:38/ Jer 18:11/ Is 45:7/ Amos 3:6/ Ezek 20:25
God is not the author of evil
1 Cor 14:33/ Deut 32:4/ James 1:13
12. God gives freely to those who ask
James 1:5/ Luke 11:10
God withholds his blessings and prevents men from receiving
them
John 12:40/ Josh 11:20/ Is 63:17
13. God is to be found by those who seek him
Matt 7:8/ Prov 8:17
God is not to be found by those who seek him
Prov 1:28
You atheists, always hoping to create a crack in the foundation only to find out too late that your heads are softer than concrete !
Your so-called theological doctrinal relationships;
#1 - Gen 1:31 God is satisfied with all that He made. The creation was at this point finished, all was made working perfectly as planned.God gives responsibility of the planet to man, time passes. Gen6:6 - man has rejected God for the most part at this point and created a destructive mess. God sighed in sorrow at the lowness and destructiveness of man. His dissatisfaction was with mans' accomplishments(even tho claiming His own creating of man). His dissatisfaction was not with Himself. If you read the Bible you will find later that this was planned. God had to express to us how He felt when He viewed our downfall.
#2- The operative word is "chose". God can choose to show Himself wherever. Like you would at a motel-you live there, but you don't really live there.
24. Robbery commanded
Ex 3:21,22/ Ex 12:35,36
Robbery forbidden
Lev 19:13/ Ex 20:15
25. Lying approved and sanctioned
Josh 2:4-6/ James 2:25/ Ex 1:18-20/ 1 Kings 22:21,22
Lying forbidden
Ex 20:16/ Prov 12:22/ Rev 21:8
26. Hatred to the Edomite sanctioned
2 Kings 14:7,3
Hatred to the Edomite forbidden
Deut 23:7
27. Killing commanded
Ex 32:27
Killing forbidden
Ex 20:13
28. The blood-shedder must die
Gen 9:5,6
The blood-shedder must not die
Gen 4:15
29. The making of images forbidden
Ex 20:4
The making of images commanded
Ex 25:18,20
30. Slavery and oppression ordained
Gen 9:25/ Lev 25:45,46/ Joel 3:8
Slavery and oppression forbidden
Is 58:6/ Ex 22:21/ Ex 21:16/ Matt 23:10
Robbery commanded/forbidden-you state the laws of conduct for humanity in general which imply a fairness. You neglect for the sake of argument 400 years of slavery under the Egyptians in which time no wages would have been given. The meagre amount collected from the Egyptians upon their departure was nothing more than money owed as back-pay for years of hardship of theirs and their forefathers.
Regarding lying-in the example you give for the spies and Rahab God did no sanctioning as you state, it was her own method of offering protection to some of God's people, and she was rewarded for that risk of her life for their sakes. Your example in 1 Kings is a good reference for God commanding an evil spirit to perform naturally. God can give truth to whom He will and He can give deception-He is God. He expects us to live truthfully and not lie, but in dire circumstances we don't have to give the truth to evil people.
Gotta love apologetics.
"You neglect for the sake of argument 400 years of slavery under the Egyptians in which time no wages would have been given."
You neglect the lack of archeological evidence that the Hebrews even *were* Egyptian slaves at the time. You neglect the illogic of a nation of slaves leaving with an army of 200,000 (slaves don't have armies).
I ain't apologizin'
You obviously neglect anything that is proof whether archaeological, historic or empirical. The Israelites left in an organized fashion in military form because of it's efficiency - Moses was an educated man with the highest education possible for the time as He was ruler, second to Pharoah for a time over Egypt. Also the logistical method required the movement of approx. 1 million people, along with herds and supplies.
You need to read more......but what 's the point - you wouldn't accept it anyway. Cable has some good picture shows !!
In all that you present as seeming contradictions, they are only in your own mind because of an evil intent to persuade those who don't know for sure of a doubtful possibility. Your points do not take context into consideration. We could go through all your comparisons, but I think it is clear in the few examples given that you are simply - WRONG ! Your lack of understanding and poor presentation of proof leaves a weak defense for supporting your empty claims.
However the Bible is always on the Best Seller list!
So is "The God Delusion".
If you spent as much time studying the bible as you do that garbage you read, you might learn something. I am sure that you can take any book and pick out what seems to be contradictions. Believe me, many, many people much smarter than you have tried and failed to disprove the bible and God.
I think you are just carrying on to get attention.
Richard Dawkins is a fruitcake. He implies motivation, will, and teleology to DNA. That is like worshipping a tiny little God, instead of a huge universal one. Either way it is idolatry. There is no pattern of history to random mutation. If it is random and chaotic, there can be no pattern of "selfish genes" replicating themselves. Before reading Pop Science books, Rickygirl should study scientific method, and epistomology, or the study of how we know what we think we know. Don't take someone else's opinion as fact. Think for yourself!
6. God is everywhere present, sees and knows all things
Prov 15:3/ Ps 139:7-10/ Job 34:22,21
God is not everywhere present, neither sees nor knows all
things
Gen 11:5/ Gen 18:20,21/ Gen 3:8
7. God knows the hearts of men
Acts 1:24/ Ps 139:2,3
God tries men to find out what is in their heart
Deut 13:3/ Deut 8:2/ Gen 22:12
8. God is all powerful
Jer 32:27/ Matt 19:26
God is not all powerful
Judg 1:19
9. God is unchangeable
James 1:17/ Mal 3:6/ Ezek 24:14/ Num 23:19
God is changeable
Gen 6:6/ Jonah 3:10/ 1 Sam 2:30,31/ 2 Kings 20:1,4,5,6/
Ex 33:1,3,17,14
10. God is just and impartial
Ps 92:15/ Gen 18:25/ Deut 32:4/ Rom 2:11/ Ezek 18:25
God is unjust and partial
Gen 9:25/ Ex 20:5/ Rom 9:11-13/ Matt 13:12
17. God commands, approves of, and delights in burnt offerings,
sacrifices ,and holy days
Ex 29:36/ Lev 23:27/ Ex 29:18/ Lev 1:9
God disapproves of and has no pleasure in burnt offerings,
sacrifices, and holy days.
Jer 7:22/ Jer 6:20/ Ps 50:13,4/ Is 1:13,11,12
18. God accepts human sacrifices
2 Sam 21:8,9,14/ Gen 22:2/ Judg 11:30-32,34,38,39
God forbids human sacrifice
Deut 12:30,31
19. God tempts men
Gen 22:1/ 2 Sam 24:1/ Jer 20:7/ Matt 6:13
God tempts no man
James 1:13
20. God cannot lie
Heb 6:18
God lies by proxy; he sends forth lying spirits t deceive
2 Thes 2:11/ 1 Kings 22:23/ Ezek 14:9
21. Because of man's wickedness God destroys him
Gen 6:5,7
Because of man's wickedness God will not destroy him
Gen 8:21
I think RD posted an excellent article, and I think RD's reason for posting it has been lost on most here. Its a shame we have degenerated the conversation to this level. But since we are here (saw that one comin' huh?), These obvious contradictions you point out, aren't all obvious, but rather a point of context. However, maintaining verbal plenary inspiration of the Bible does not give us all the answers to supposed contradictions in the Bible. I think many Christians take a literal approach to scripture because they feel it will give them all the answers. It doesn't. I think many Christian scholars create complex theologies to try and have all the answers. They don't. The walk of faith is not easy, but is a living experience. Some problems I have had with Scripture have been made clear to me in my walk. Some have not, and I am not afraid to admit that. I don't believe that makes my faith 'illegitimate' or 'backward or 'unreasonable'.
Did you know that our own Milky Way Galaxy has 300 billion stars in it? I wonder if God controls the weak-minded in those solar systems as well...
"The galaxy is estimated to contain 200 billion stars but this number may be as high as 400 billion"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milky_Way
and if that doesn't give God enough to do on Sunday, there are BILLIONS of OTHER galaxies in the VISIBLE universe!
You appear to think that because you recognize large numbers of something, that it is impossible for someone to have made and maintain it. You are only reflecting your own personal recognition that it is humanly impoosible to do as well as hard to grasp the magnitude of our physical realm. You make the mistake of thinking of God as human, comparing Him to being human and having limited capabilities. He has done all things, sustains all things, and has no limits except where He chooses to limit Himself, generally stating it for our sakes. Stop thinking like an arrogant child as if you understood all things. You can't, I can't, we don't. God does.
RD,
You, and a few other people on NS, have set you up as some sort of ICON to be worshiped. Your tenets are to be accepted without question and you are to be taken to the our bosoms, giving you all the accolades you think you so richly deserve.
HOGWASH! You are worse than any con attempting to sell religion, you are selling yourself. You are egotistical and border on being a complete maniac where religion is concerned. You protesteth toooooo much, I think the Devil has a hold on you, and you're out here doing his dirty work for him, and call it science. I have a nephew who is a research scientist, and he believes in God! Your theories are very flawed, one sided, and prejudiced to anything other than your own person belief, and you endlessly attempt to force your beliefs on everyone, then poopoo anyone who disagrees with you. Very intelligent of you eh?
Just as i believe in God and Heaven, i also believe in the Devil and Hell. The Devil is rampant in you.
Yes, Ricky Dawkins, Open your mind and open your heart, and you will be amazed at what you can learn, and Who you can find.
Ezekiel 36:26-27 (New International Version):::
26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws.
not2needy,
You casually mention that you believe in Hell. Do you know what you are saying? Are you saying that people are burned alive forever? And will you toast marshmallows while the damned burn?
Armerican Atheists member
Everyone has the opportunity not to burn, it's all about choices.
That is a big comfort.
Tell that to the damned, and admit that all unbelievers should be burned at the stake.
Robert Ingersoll spent the late nineteenth century delivering anti-religious lectures, and every lecture denounced the doctrine of Hell. One man sent Ingersoll an anonymous letter saying that he had attended one of Ingersoll's lectures years ago, with the intention of shooting him, but he was so moved that he became an admirer of Ingersoll.
I doubt it will help, but you might try reading a few of Ingersoll's lectures, which are now available on the Internet. And you might consider the possiblity that eternal hellfire is based on sadism carried to infinite extremes.
Everyone has the opportunity not to burn, it's all about choices.
So God gives us freewill and if we choose not to burn than we live...simple until you think about this. God is, by the standard definition perfect, he created humanity "in his own image", yet God is, once more by the standard definition good, and by your own admission and the Bible, humanity is evil from birth. So your perfect God created a race of freewilled people and then cursed us so that if we don't accept him for any reason from choice to simply never having...then we get to burn in hell.
2) God, by standard definition, is just. If this were true then how do you justify carrying the "sin" of Adam and Eve to the entire species of humanity. This would be the equivalent of your grandfather 20 generations ago committing a crime and having all of progeny for ALL TIME, have to serve the same sentence from birth.
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81)
PZ's bigotry is informed because PZ's blog has been documenting the great amounts of ignorance, delusion, wickedness, foolishness and oppression he finds in the news. For example, in just the past few days PZ has posted these items on his blog:
Another liar for Jesus
The great parasite and liar in the sky
Prayer for dummies
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/
Of course, PZ is cherry picking his evidence, just like most of us in the blogosphere, and even PZ's own daughter rebuked us all for getting into this stupid fight. However, we've got more than PZ's cherry picked evidence to go on, we've also got extensive cross-national attitude studies, Gallup Poll data and more. Large groups and majorities believe in a personal God, an afterlife, Bible stories, the Devil, Hell, Heaven and miracles. There is a very low level of scientific literacy about human evolution in America when compared to other developed nations.
http://normdoering.blogspot.com/