Do Atheists Disbelieve in God, Or Do They Hate Him? »
Posted By msaleem 1 year, 2 months ago in NewsEven if God's existence could be proven, Niezsche writes in The Antichrist, we would still refuse to accept him.
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HmacComment removed: User banned.19 Replies
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HmacComment removed: User banned.
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mikhurst1 year, 2 months ago
face it Hmac, it's obvious. I believe you hate God because He's bigger than you. I believe you hate us because we have something of substance, and you don't. We profess to worship a an all-knowing, all-loving God, and you profess to worship "NOT". We profess to have "faith", you profess to have "LACK OF".
You to answer to the topic: "Do Atheists Disbelieve in God, Or Do They Hate Him?" with: "None of the atheists I know are raving homocidal maniacs". I believe that shows me 2 things: (1) you hate us because of our allegiance to God (2) you're an aspiring student of Richard Dawkins' school of debating.
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HmacComment removed: User banned.11 Replies
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mikhurst1 year, 2 months ago
re:"I am thoroughly unappreciative of those of your ilk who would attempt brainwashing and psychologically raping others by shoving unwanted, unsupported, information with no evidence to back it into our heads" -> that's your opinion. You know the saying..."everybody's got one". We feel the same about "aggressive atheist proselytizing". Anyway, you've got your greater ACLU to back you guys. And you've got your "closet atheist" government officials backing the ACLU. You should be happy. You've got a loud and powerful voice speaking for you so you don't get slighted in the very least way.
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mikhurst1 year, 2 months ago
re:"Hey, then, here's an idea: keep it to yourselves" -> do I sense a little anger?
The First Amendment to the United States Constitution is a part of the United States Bill of Rights...It prohibits the federal legislature from making laws that establish religion or prohibit free exercise of religion, laws that infringe the freedom of speech, infringe the freedom of the press, limit the right to assemble peaceably.
They're the same laws it seems you guys think were written exclusively for you, but they weren't.
re:"YOU stand down, and so will he" -> LOL - I'm neither moved, nor shaken.
What Christian in their right mind is going to bow down to a raging Oxford "professor"? He is merely preaching "the world". We are of "the Kingdom of God".
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sanctusvia1 year, 2 months ago
OK, then who determines if someone is a xian or not? You? I know, your god. Well, if he's the one that determines it, then the rest of you need to shut the hell up about it. I have found you, mikhurst, on numerous threads, stating that you don't consider this person to be a xian, or that person a xian. Then you turn right around and say that it is not up to man to determine who is or is not a xian. Well, which is it? Pick one and stick with it. I'm with crespi on this one. If a person claims to be xian, I'll take him at his word and judge him accordingly.
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sanctusvia1 year, 2 months ago
No, that is not opinion. It is fact. Evangelical xians DO try to shove "unwanted, unsupported information with no evidence to back it into our heads". You see, there is something called fact, and something called opinion. Facts have evidence to substantiate them. Look around. People try to tell us all the time that their god is the one true god. Fact.
Then we have opinion. This is not backed up by evidence, or very little evidence. You know, like the opinion that the ruler of a bunch of goat herding jews requires that we have faith in him in order to reach a mythological "heaven" when we die.
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icelander1 year, 2 months ago
I don't hate god, I just don't see any evidence of it.
I don't hate you, I just think you've misinterpreted the facts.
What I do hate is people telling others they're condemned to hell, asserting the dominance of their unprovable metaphysical views, and holding up myth as fact and the basis for governance.
Also, I hate being bothered when I'm trying to sleep in on Saturday mornings.
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lvrofwolves1 year, 2 months ago
icelander says-' Also, I hate being bothered when I'm trying to sleep in on Saturday mornings.'
Same here, like everyone doesn't know where to go if they want to hear some form of religion. I don't need nor want it knocking on my door. Tho...it would be very interesting if someday an Atheist rang my door bell, but I don't think that would ever happen, they show respect for others.
I should find a sign 'NO SOLICITING, INCLUDING RELIGION'.
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DarkWizard1 year, 2 months ago
mikhurst,
Do you love Muslims? They have the same God as Christians and also believe in Jesus Christ. Do you see them as equals? Jews have the same God you do. Do you love Jews? Do you see them as equals? Do you believe that others of the same faith, but that are of different denominations as yourself can enter the Kingdom of Heaven?
"They do not regard Muhammad as the founder of a new religion, but as the restorer of the original monotheistic faith of Abraham, Moses, Jesus, and other prophets. Islamic tradition holds that Judaism and Christianity distorted the messages of these prophets over time either in interpretation, in text, or both."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam
Tell the truth and see if your argument against atheists is any different than your view of other believers.
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HmacComment removed: User banned.48 Replies
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mikhurst1 year, 2 months ago
re:"Most atheists are atheists not because of hatred of deity, but rather because of a lack of evidence for them." -> From Richard Dawkins' "The God Delusion": "I am attacking God, all gods, anything and everything supernatural..."
From: RichardDawkins.net Forum - "I'll lobby to change our motto from "In God We Trust" to "God is a D*uchebag"
Lack of evidence..? That's way more than enough evidence for me to determine hatred.
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HmacComment removed: User banned.46 Replies
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mikhurst1 year, 2 months ago
re:"You're just upset..." -> let me borrow icelander's comment - "I like how you tell me how I feel about things. That's very (moral atheist) of you."
re:"Dawkins' militant atheism is challenging your beliefs" -> our beliefs have been challenged all the way back to the days of the apostles. Come to think if it, even as Jesus walked the earth. Satan's been at work full-time.
re:"take off those rose-colored Jesus goggles" -> it's not so easy being a Christian sometimes. I really believe that's why you hung it up. I really don't buy into the "lack of evidence" thing. I think it was just too tough a road for you to walk.
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mikhurst1 year, 2 months ago
re:"You chastise me in one breath for telling you YOUR feelings, and then you attempt to tell me mine" -> I cited your comment "You're just upset..." as I now will your comment "You're a dumba$$". I've been very diligent to preceed my comments with, "I think" or "I believe", mainly because lately I have been bringing to light people improperly voicing what is mere "opinion" as "hard fact". Many have recognized the value of it, yet some have ignored the request.
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mikhurst1 year, 2 months ago
re:"When the "opinion" is backed by empirical evidence, it becomes "hard fact" -> why must you argue this one? Do you have "empirical evidence" that "I'm just upset that Dawkins' militant atheism is challenging my beliefs" or, for that matter, that I'm "a dumba$$"?
re:"challenging my beliefs" -> I'm fine with that. It provides another opportunity to Glorify God.
re:"Much as you do, when requested to provide evidence for God" -> you've already affirmed that you'll not be satisfied with any "evidence for God" the Christian provides you.
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mikhurst1 year, 2 months ago
Hmac - re:"You have no idea what my Christian life was like" -> whatever it was like, good or bad, it's no reason to curse God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit or any Christ followers.
YOU were once a believer, now YOU are not. That fact doesn't change any of what YOU once believed. It was truth to YOU when YOU believed, now it is not (to YOU), but that doesn't change it from being truth. YOU are the one which has changed.
Think about it. Whatever resided in YOU that (at one time) allowed YOU to accept the Gospel as truth is either suppressed, or is being ignored. Whatever is now residing in YOU that's allowing YOU to accept atheism is prominant, or is being listened to. YOU are just a vessel of belief or non-belief.
Why do YOU condemn God and Christians? Why don't YOU just celebrate, worship and adore YOU?
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mikhurst1 year, 2 months ago
re:"did you ever consider if you were born in another place...that you would be 'professing' to someone/something else?" -> "...did I ever consider?" Yes.
"...that you would be 'professing' to someone/something else?" -> No. I believe God put me "here" for such a time as this. I HAVE walked different faith walks and I believe God walked beside me through all my "journeys". I arrived where I now stand with a knowledge of where I've been, but have been delivered from those times. I believe He walked me through those times to give me emapthy and a foundation to speak into people's lives who are now walking those same paths that I once walked.
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lvrofwolves1 year, 2 months ago
If there were no family or society talking about religion-you wouldn't have any. Surely you aren't claiming to have tried on every religion imaginable-are you?? if so, let me guess 'God/JC' told you he was the correct one.
Come on, surely you know what I mean. What if you had been born in the Amazon jungle, without any 'Christian' missionaries coming to taint your world??? are you saying you would still feel the same way about your 'God'??
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mikhurst1 year, 2 months ago
re:"let me guess 'God/JC' told you he was the correct one" -> actually, the HS (Holy Spirit) told me JC is "the Real Deal". Every other "belief" crumbled at that point. I really pray you get touched by the HS. It's extremely revelatory.
re:"are you saying you would still feel the same way about your 'God'?" -> as long as you've created a hypothetical world, my answer would probably by "no". I think I'd be even more enthused and blown away and probably be more bold than I am now. Thank's for stretching my imagination.
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Iwalknlight1 year, 2 months ago
".....consider if you were born in another place, or perhaps to a non Christian-but some other religion, family, that you would be 'professing' to someone/something else?"
In this event it would have brought me even CLOSER to Elohim!!!
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icelander1 year, 2 months ago
"it's not so easy being a Christian sometimes. I really believe that's why you hung it up. I really don't buy into the "lack of evidence" thing. I think it was just too tough a road for you to walk."
Yeah, it's kind of hard to have faith in a being who condemns innocent babies to lives of pain and suffering because some woman listened to a talking snake.
And it's kind of hard to feel fellowship with people who think all humans are sinful, dirty, wretched creatures.
And it's kind of hard to look at the grandeur of the universe and think that an omnipotent being spent a lot of time wandering the desert, living in a tent, accepting burnt offerings from a bunch ex-slaves and telling them to commit genocide.
So, yeah, being a Christian *is* a hard road to walk, and that *is* why I gave it up. Atheism involves a lot less mental gymnastics.
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mikhurst1 year, 2 months ago
re:"it's kind of hard to have faith in a being who condemns innocent babies to lives of pain" -> we don't understand why that is. Can't "blame" God though. "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD." [Isa 55:8]
re:"because some woman listened to a talking snake" -> that's a spiritual matter. If you dismiss the concept, you'll never be able to understand it.
re:"kind of hard to feel fellowship with people who think all humans are sinful, dirty, wretched creatures" -> sounds like you're hanging around the wrong kind of Christians. They're either "bound" by legalism, or not "born-again".
re:"Atheism involves a lot less mental gymnastics" -> easy way out? Could that bring us back to the statement: "I think it was just too tough a road for you to walk"?
Christianity's not always a "cake-walk".
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icelander1 year, 2 months ago
We've gone round and round on all these subjects before and never got anywhere. I've yet to find any "person of faith" who could answer any of those questions with anything other than a cop out, usually pulling the "We can't understand god" or the "God has a plan" cards.
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mikhurst1 year, 2 months ago
re:"I've yet to find any "person of faith"..." -> are you waiting for a "man" to explain "God's will" to you? Sounds like you're hunting the wrong hunting grounds. You're searching "the world" for the "things of God". Why don't you just ask God?
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Coatl1 year, 2 months ago
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mikhurst1 year, 2 months ago
re:"Perhaps because he didn't answer..." -> "God resisteth the proud..." [James 4:6]
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sanctusvia1 year, 2 months ago
Well, if he really existed, he could tell you. But if you do hear him telling you, you probably should take some medication. My wife used to hear the voices. Medication cleared that right up.
While I am on that topic, my wife used to be a missionary (true story here). She felt the "holy spirit" move her. Then she went to a Denver Broncos game (she's originally from Denver). When the Broncos scored, and the crowd went wild, she felt the exact same thing. Bam! Instant atheist. Well, she has since progressed into more of a pagan outlook, but only in terms of possibilities. She is, however, quite certain that her "born again" experience was nothing more than evangelical voodoo.
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sanctusvia1 year, 2 months ago
Since we were created in his image, I would imagine he has two eyes. As for your second question, ya got me there. No clue.
Since we *were* created in his image, I wonder what YVHV's bathroom looks like. He has to go sometime, doesn't he? We already know he's a meat eater, or at least he likes more meat than veggies.
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sanctusvia1 year, 2 months ago
No, she was a missionary because she was "born again" and god "told" her to become a missionary. But then she had the exact same feeling at a Broncos game. And medication cleared the voices up nicely.
As for a misinterpretation of the holy spirit, how do you know you haven't misinterpreted. Maybe you need meds, too.
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sanctusvia1 year, 2 months ago
>>one can "misinterpret" what a "move of the Holy Spirit" is
But a few comments up, you said:
>>actually, the HS (Holy Spirit) told me JC is "the Real Deal". Every other "belief" crumbled at that point.
How do you know you didn't "misinterpret"? I think it was either a bad burrito or you need a dose or two of Geodon.
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Iwalknlight1 year, 2 months ago
"Perhaps because he didn't answer the last time I did that."
Keep praying and praising His Holiness and ask Him to develop your ear to hear Him and soften your heart to receive Him.
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sanctusvia1 year, 2 months ago
Well, I would think that an all knowing, all loving, all powerful deity would be more than competent to make it known what his answer was, in a manner that would not suggest medication was needed.
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sanctusvia1 year, 2 months ago
Oops. Should have been positive. Why can't god keep my trackball from jumping around? Must not be in his plan.
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lvrofwolves1 year, 2 months ago
icelander said- I've yet to find any "person of faith" who could answer any of those questions with anything other than a cop out, usually pulling the "We can't understand god" or the "God has a plan" cards.
you forgot one 'God works in mysterious ways'
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mikhurst1 year, 2 months ago
re:"Actually I consider that my life as a Christian was way easier" -> I remember your description of the "Christians" you knew. It sounded like the deadest bunch I ever heard of. You stated something like "none of them care anything about the Bible or about their faith". Yeh, it's pretty easy to "call" yourself a Christian. Maybe go to "Mass" once or twice a year.
Like many other things, you get back proportionately to what you put in.
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Coatl1 year, 2 months ago
Actually I was referring to the Catholics I know of, I was raised as a Baptist, so they're completely different like those you describe. Everything in religion is predigested, all you have to do is obey god's rules. It's really more complicated to set your own rules and learn to do the right thing for the sake of doing what's right, without expecting something in return.
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mikhurst1 year, 2 months ago
re:"It's really more complicated to set your own rules and learn to do the right thing for the sake of doing what's right" -> how can you conceive "learning to do the right thing for the sake of doing what's right" without crossing over into God's dominion? I mean, isn't "setting your own rules" to achieve such a goal, claiming "your own righteousness"?
If you know anything about "Baptist" doctrine, you'll know that "man's righteousness" carries absolutely no weight, and even carries condemnation. You're trying to claim what Jesus taught, to be of your own design, excluding Him from the picture.
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Coatl1 year, 2 months ago
"isn't "setting your own rules" to achieve such a goal, claiming "your own righteousness"?"
Nope, that is not what I'm claiming. Actually my starting point is that I'm very very ignorant about what life is about. But so are you, and everybody else in this world. So following somebody else's rules is as silly as following mine. But I'd rather living by my own standards.
""man's righteousness" carries absolutely no weight, and even carries condemnation."
That is from that particular point of view, actually I think all religions are invented by man, so by following some religion or book standards I'm basically following some guy's standards. As I stated above, I prefer to set my own standards.
"You're trying to claim what Jesus taught"
I don't know what Jesus taught, I wasn't there to hear him speak. I know some of the things that the NT says he said. So I'd never try to say what Jesus did or didn't teach.
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Iwalknlight1 year, 2 months ago
"And it's kind of hard to feel fellowship with people who think all humans are sinful, dirty, wretched creatures."
And this is one of the problems...We feel that we are BETTER than the next man...I got GOOD news!!..we are not.
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InChrist1 year, 2 months ago
They hate Christ, no doubt. They do all they can to discredit Him, that is their MO. They do it with a passion.
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HmacComment removed: User banned.14 Replies
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InChrist1 year, 2 months ago
Life is enough evidence for God and theres plenty of good reason to believe in the gospels of Jesus Christ. I know theres plenty of reason to not believe as well. The problem with these men mentioned in the article they don't recognize any validity of the Bible or Christ. They have no objectivity, just an agenda in which it's clear they hate the name of Jesus.
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InChrist1 year, 2 months ago
Well I'd be a distant cousin to that wet rock I stepped over last week as well then. You say there's evidence that proves I'm distant cousin to the fish. I say that evidence is proof that there is one creator and all creation has something in common, being that one creator.
Exactly my point, the Bible has far more credibilty than Grimm's Fairy Tales but these men don't recognize that and in doing so, go to great lengths to discredit Christ and Christianity. People who have faith in Jesus are just like little kids believing in santa claus. Life has no real meaning, its just some random evolved thing out of nothing or wet rocks that evolved out of nowhere. Sorry life is far to incredible for that to be true. That's all the evidence I and many others need.
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smithichie1 year, 2 months ago
If the xian god doesn't believe in other gods why did IT waste a whole commandment telling people not to worship other gods?
Clearly the people who originated that myth believed in other gods.
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mikhurst1 year, 2 months ago
re:"He doesn't believe in OTHER gods, right?" -> is that a question or a statement?
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Coatl1 year, 2 months ago
"the Bible has far more credibilty than Grimm's Fairy Tales"
Probably, but if you don't have faith in it, then that credibility it really has no more credibility than Homer's Iliad.
"its just some random evolved thing out of nothing or wet rocks that evolved out of nowhere."
Well that is a misunderstood, creationist are the ones saying that life appeared from nowhere, evolutionist say that life is a natural reaction of certain elements, during certain circumstances.Which to me it is completely different. And I think that if life has any meaning at all is up to every one to decide.
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DarkWizard1 year, 2 months ago
Hey, you leave Homer's Iliad out of this! It's a true story. And, the Gods of Mount Olympus are the only true Gods. I can't believe that a monotheist God can replace them and proclaim them dead. Cronos created the universe and it has to be true because he was written of before the Christian Bible became popular. Luckily for all of you that Zeus and Hera are willing to forgive your indiscretions if you just acknowledge them. You can see their power everywhere. The art we enjoy, the architecture of buildings, statues and sculptures, poetry, literature, science, philosophy, comedy, drama, and democracy. Give up your pagans God and acknowledge the Gods who inspired the way you live and think.
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mikhurst1 year, 2 months ago
re:"Cronos created the universe and it has to be true because he was written of before the Christian Bible became popular" -> does Supreme Deity come on a "first written about" basis?
Do Zeus and Hera claim to be "the forgivers of indiscretions"?
re:"You can see their power everywhere...art, architecture of buildings, statues and sculptures, poetry, literature, science, philosophy, comedy, drama, and democracy" -> that's all man-made, DarkWizard.
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DarkWizard1 year, 2 months ago
mikhurst,
Yahweh, Zeus, Odin, and I were all discussing how humans are just "too" serious about themselves and the whole "Creator" thing. They are actually very personable and have great senses of humor. They told me that it gets tiring sometimes to be blamed for everything bad in one breath and praised in the next breath. They just wish everyone would stop killing in their name and take responsibility for themselves. According to my buddies, only about 10 people on earth will make into heaven anyway. Most will just inherit the earth.
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Iwalknlight1 year, 2 months ago
Well the Virgin Mary is a very important woman of the Bible, but clearly not my Savoir.
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HmacComment removed: User banned.20 Replies
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HannibalBarca1 year, 2 months ago
"It has served us well,this myth of Christ" Pope leo X 16th century
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Mazrix1 year, 2 months ago
"A lot lies too being that all men are liars"
I need to agree with him in THIS one only, but there are liars of a greater magnitude in the Christian world..
how did it go again? It was somewhere in Genesis... "Thou can eat from all the trees in the Garden, except for the tree of knowledge of good and evil. If thou eats from that tree, thou shalt surely die!"-God
"Thou shalt not surely die"-Satan
They ate, but didn't die... In fact, they lived about 9 times as long as many other humans... Satan was right...
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sanctusvia1 year, 2 months ago
Awww...did I hurt his wittle feeeeelings?
"what do I do all the time" -> Read two comments above yours, which is in response to the neg you gave his comment above about Pope Leo X. Yes, you neg voted it. http://religion.netscape.com/story/2007/08/10/d... - and scroll down to the bottom where it says "Who voted against this comment?" Is that you? Thought so.
"I know the facts I am not confused like you are about them." -> Then kindly enlighten us, o educated one, on the inaccuracy you found with HannibalBarca's comment. As far as I can tell, though Pope Leo X may not have originated that phrase, he did use it. Do you have any evidence to invalidate that?
"Adam and eve died a spiritual death" -> He wasn't talking about Adam and Eve, but Pope Leo X. Have you gone off your meds?
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sanctusvia1 year, 2 months ago
Salright. I do it all the time. "God", with his plan, keeps making my trackball jump just before I click. But I don't feel singled out. He does the same to the end times xians. Every time one of them figures out when the end of the world will be, he moves it off a few years, just to be funny. What a joker, that YHVH!
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sanctusvia1 year, 2 months ago
See, he did it to me this time. Check the stories he has voted/sunk/commented on. You will find a lot of neg votes to facts by him. That is a fact. Also a fact, a lot of fundies on here do the same thing. Just pick one. Hell, pick ten. Check their participation. Dispute that comfortstrike.
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