Religion – Today the United States is being confronted with large numbers of scientifically ignorant, politically active Christians who are locked into ultra-religious, anti-scientific views and who want to force these views on others through our elected officials, our courts, and our schools. Creationists can generate lies more quickly than you can refute.
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A scientist, Charles L. Rulon, debated an ID creationist, and here are the opening remarks he gave to justify joining in the debate.
**It pits oratory against science in a venue where you'll be judged on your rhetoric.
**It gives publicity to creationists.
**Creationists can generate more lies more quickly than you can refute.
**Debates give equal time to two sides, falsely elevating creationist trivia to equality with scientific substance.
**The debates are often used to recruit members to fundamentalist Christian organizations.
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/07/dont...
(oops, reasons NOT to join a creationist debate)
> (oops, reasons NOT to join a creationist debate)
A very typical set of 'reasons' usually given by someone unable to generate anything better:
"You're a liar and I'm not going to debate you".
The religious right is way off base, but predictably on their mark. They will fail and I have faith in the Supreme Court coming down on the side of religious views being excluded from public schools. Belief in God, either way, is not going away.
In the evolution of mankind and the fauna of our little planet, it is very obvious that man created God and not the other way around.
However, the argument for an all knowing, all loving, all powerful God is so compelling, even I wish it were true. The Church is not God but the Church in the right hands has done so many good things for less the fortunate and all the Church wants in return is to tell you about God or Jesus. If you buy into it, OK, it not, OK.
However, the State should never cross the line of endorsing any religion.
You are right about getting caught in the middle of this debate, there is no end to arguments on either side. The best approach is to stay on the side line, but thanks for the article.
Ricky, please be good or I'll have to introduce you to the back of my hand. =D
I might enjoy that :P
Rulon points out a sort of law of rhetoric, which really should be obvious: Who wins a debate depends a great deal MORE on the audience than on the skills of the debaters. The results of the 2004 presidential elections are a good example of the principle. To my mind--that of a 20-plus year teacher of rhetoric--John Kerry won the Kerry-Bush debates hands down. But much of the rest of the country felt otherwise.
I agrees scrib. The audience is the key. Theres millions of Americans who watch them debates to figgure out what a candidate stands for.
But theres millions more of us Christian Conservativees who knew goin inta that Bush/Kerry debate that we supported Bush - on accounta Bush is born again. Shure, Kerry claimed he was a Christian. But we evangelicals dont consider Catholics to be ture Christian - plus, Kerry dint go on an on bout how Jesus was his personal savior.
When Goerge advertised his borned again-ness, thats a free ticket in our books. Ifn you tells everyone that you are born again - ever chance you get, then we Christian Conservatives will support you till armegeddon.
And the way Bush and Cheney be leadin the nation, armageddin could be here sooner than anybody expected. God bless em!
Ahhh, the Rapture doth come.
Praise the Lawd n' pass the amminition, n' don't be lettin' none a them homasexuls up next ta ya, Goppy!
Somtimes I beleive Guppy might be a Lib. He jsut pretingding to be Reupublican because he got that Liberal Mentel Disorder.
Just avoid people like this:
http://objectiveministries.org/creation/
...for your own sanity, that is.
Haha, dinosaur hunt! It's old but I guess he didn't find any!
I think someone snuck one in on them. Did you noticed the grinning picture of Jesus with the label LOL? Supposedly it means loving our lord, but it so commonly used for laughing out loud that I'm guessing someone has a sense of humor over there.
I clicked on that smiling Jesus with the LOL, and it doesn't go anywhere. Also, did you notice that Paley is a prof of Theobiology. Now that gets a big LOL.
the 4 kids part is friggin propaganda
What I find most interesting is the ministers and scientists are both just guessing. Neither have enough facts or proof that would hold up in court.
Evolution and the human body makes no sense. Think on how complex it is for humans to reproduce... If Lilith/Eve was an after thought how did we get a reproductive system??
Why do we need to have sex? We should just get married and wait for God to but magic babies inside our women...
...or why do we need to breathe? Wouldn't we just live as is?
You bring up interesting points, I have no idea why, but they do leave more questions than answers.
A magic baby...that's what God did for Mary!!
"A magic baby...that's what God did for Mary!!"
Man... you are SO brianwashed.
FISHFRY001... Are you refering to crazyray's magic baby or my refering to crazyray's magic baby.
Natural selection (of a mate) requires sexual reproduction. Otherwise evolution would be limited to natural mutations only and not their promotion thru selection.
All anyone has said is close to guessing why men are attracted to large breasts! The comment was that evolution is hard to accept considering how human reproduction is so complex... what other mammal is showing evolution effects??
Not all of us are attracted to large breasts. That's an awfully odd example.
You're comments re: why evolution is difficult to accept make little sense to me. I see know reason why small steps wouldn't result in complex mutations over tens of millions of years.
Mark just has a breast fetish.
> I see know reason why small steps wouldn't result in complex mutations over tens of millions of years.
You 'see KNOW' reasons or you 'see NO' reasons?
I see NO reasons for small steps to result in complex mutations over tens of millions of years. This is how every single complex machine or building is designed and engineered...
...Oh yes, we're debating AGAINST intelligent design here, aren't we?
I'm debating on ministers and scientists taking a self-righteous high ground and telling me what the "truth" is.
Everyone is picking the best of evolution... we did not come from monkeys, according to the evolution chart we came from fish. Try to imagine somwhere a fish being born with a mammals reproductive system...
Fish then Amphibians then Reptiles then Mammals
The level of complexity is a red herring.
Ever try red snapper?
Large breast usually means wider hips and a better birthing canal that gives better chances of baby and mother surviving child birth. This is proof of natural selection.
Seems like a lot of the selection for large breasts comes from someone picking her upgrades.
I see the evolutionists have no answers... just humor.
Don't feel bad creationists have no answers and no humor!!
Mark, part of the process of finding answers is in the research. Part of it takes time unearthing sites in which fossils are located. Until time elapses, it is unlikely we will have all the answers to all the questions. Hence, we develop theories based on what we know and what we have experienced. Since the Bible would have us take it's claims solely on its word, the Bible can hardly be used as a book of science. Fiction on the other hand or literature would be a better classification for that tome.
Upgrades on humans are only a sign of ones vanity and serve as a symbol of ones dissatisfaction in them self. Personally the up front upgrades look silly and take away from the natural beauty of a woman, breast come in all shapes and sizes, they all have their fun points.
> Large breast usually means wider hips and a better birthing canal...
In most cases, large breasts mean a lot of silicon.
You haven't met the women around here than, very little silicone around here. Why I have some good pictures of my wife I could er, um , wait a minute, never mind.
Breast size and hip size have no correlation... hip size is bone structure... breast size is fat cell content often young large breasted women will grow into them.
Everyone is picking the best of evolution... we did not come from monkeys, according to the evolution chart we came from fish.
Which chart are you looking at?
Fish then Amphibians then Reptiles then Mammals
In human populations, "natural selection (of a mate)" tends to hinder the random assortment of gametes and hence DECREASES evolutionary force. Non-random mating is recognized as an important exception to applying Hardy-Wienberg equilibrium to describe the genetics of populations.
If God created everything, why can't people just magically appear? why do we even need more people? I'm thinking a flies reproduction is just as complex as a humans, if not more so. In reproduction comes things evolving. Not everything,some species just die out.
Of all the creations the world has seen none are more complex than that of man.
Jaydee- how so? how is mans reproduction any more complex then lets say chimps, cats, knats, or any other?
God may have created the world, the plants, all the animals including humans, but human kind created the most complex of them all. We created Gods, literally thousands of them since the start of time, each with their own ideas and rules for worship and acceptance. Where reproduction is mindless and simple cellular growth it takes much thought and creativity to create a religion and deity, don't you agree.
How do you know that animals don't have any religion? Perhaps they've invented their own gods.
Humans are animals. Chimpanzees are mostly Catholics, but that is because their owners were Catholics, and made them learn Leviticus.
That's why I'm asking
"Humans are animals. Chimpanzees are mostly Catholics.."
LMAO! Speaking as a practicing (sort of) Catholic, that one led to a nasal expulsion of my soft drink.
Scuse me while I clean up.
Jaydee40- Absolutely agree with you on that! YES!
I was just meaning the mindless reproduction!no being any more complex then any other thing that reproduces-and that's what I thought you were talking about, sorry :-)
Coati, if animals have any thoughts about a god, I'm sure we must be their God-which of course is not true realistically.