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Pope Reaffirms that Hell Is a Real Place »

Posted by: Jayson 1 year, 5 months ago

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Addressing a parish gathering in a northern suburb of Rome, Pope Benedict XVI said that in the modern world many people, including some believers, had forgotten that if they failed to "admit blame and promise to sin no more," they risked "eternal damnation - the Inferno."

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thomas9981 year, 5 months ago

Wow, and I thought the Pope of all people would have actually read the bible in its original language. If he had, and had studied the history he would have found that "hell" mentioned in the bible was not a fictional place or out of this world place but a dumping ground in the middle east where trash and garbage was tossed, and yes it sometimes burned as most dumps do. SO the actual hell if he had any brain cells functioning was simply the statement that the Jews (which is what the bible was writen for as there were no christians at that time) would not be buried but tossed in the dump.
Gee pretty sad when the pope doesnt' even understand the bible he's pushing on everybody else.
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    thomas9981 year, 5 months ago
    
    Hey its been more than 20 years since I even dared to read any of that stuff, my memory is faded a bit.
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    bscarb1 year, 5 months ago
    
    No credit for thomas666 or whatever and partial credit to Hmac.
    That dump, which burned all the time was the symbol of the actual Hell. Sheol is Hebrew and Hades is Greek. Scholars argue the true meaning of Sheol, but not Hades. Hades was the underworld, the place of the dead. It was a place of torment. The Pope is correct in his Bible interpretation.
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      Shankari251 year, 5 months ago
      
      Folks. The Greek Hell was an afterworld--not necessarily just a place of torment. When you died you went there. Take out Homer and read again. Homer went there on one of his odysseys.
      Beyond that why would one believe this in the 21st century? What kind of a god sends people to burn in hell? If we don't choose god, he makes us burn in hell. What kind of a god does that? Would you do that if someone profoundly disagreed with you? Would you torture this person? Think about it.
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        mikhurst1 year, 5 months ago
        
        you base the first part of your comment on Homer. Are you using Homer as a reference book?
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        inaroundabout1 year, 5 months ago
        
        When speaking of Greek mythology Homer is a pretty good reference book.
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        swasdiva1 year, 5 months ago
        
        Word.
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        gregis31 year, 5 months ago
        
        Shankari25, your statement shows a profound lack of understanding of Hell. Hell is the pain our soul feels from our deliberate separation from God. Every person in Hell has deliberately chosen to be there. God gives you what you want. If you want Heaven, it is yours, just live a good life. If you want Hell, it is also yours for the taking.
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        inaroundabout1 year, 5 months ago
        
        I have a hard time believing that an all powerful and infinitely loving god would limit my chances to avoid "the pain our soul feels from our deliberate separation from god" to just the time I spend on this earth.
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        swasdiva1 year, 5 months ago
        
        Actually, Shankari25 is dead on, so to speak, in the respect of the Greek Hades. According the myth, most dead people went there regardless of the choices they'd made in life. It is a different concept than Sheol, and certainly a different concept from your description, which, while interesting, is very modern. She is simply clearing up the misconception that the concepts of Hades and Sheol or even Gehenna are identical. They're not.
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      swasdiva1 year, 5 months ago
      
      Actually, based on what you just said, the Pope would in fact be wrong. The problem with the Bible is that some books were originally written in Hebrew or Aramaic and then translated into Greek, while others were originally written in Greek. Because their concepts of Hell differ, the authors of those books would've had different meanings behind their words and varied purposes for their writings. And frankly, why would you ultimately side with a later translation of a work instead of studying its root language?
      Actually, some sects of Judaism at the time of Jesus (Pharisees) didn't believe in any sort of afterlife at all. You were just dust. Perhaps when Jesus references Sheol or Gehenna in characterizing Hell, he's reinforcing that concept but painting it in a negative light. He's there to awaken people to the fact that they can exist and thrive beyond their mortal bodies, but if they reject his message then they will be tossed to "hell", burn up, cease to exist, be dust.
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        swasdiva1 year, 5 months ago
        
        Hmmm...I say Actually a helluva lot.
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doppich1 year, 5 months ago

He had to find somewhere to send his pedophile priests.
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  cantfoolme1 year, 5 months ago
  
  No they are all ok as long as they confess. What a religion! I think the Irish Church created hell on earth in the Magdellan Laundries. An absolute scandal.
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    icelander1 year, 5 months ago
    
    At least Catholics have to confess to somebody. Most Protestant denominations simply make you believe you're sorry and you get a free pass.
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Robocat1 year, 5 months ago

Heaven is the ultimate bribe and Hell is the ultimate threat.
So God gives us free will but we are not free to exercise it as we see fit?
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  bscarb1 year, 5 months ago
  
  You are free to exercise it as you see fit but there are negative consequences for wrong actions. If God made everyone go to heaven, freedom would be null and void, your choices here would not matter.
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    inaroundabout1 year, 5 months ago
    
    Why would there be a need for Hell. If God loves us all as much as is claimed it must pain him immensely to see us suffer in hell. Why would he allow that? Why wouldn't he simply use his omnipotent powers to simply end the existence of the souls that will not accept him?
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      swasdiva1 year, 5 months ago
      
      The same way a parent must wait in sorrow as they watch their child or sister or brother waste their life on anger, drugs, alcohol or violence. You can love a person but not make their choices for them. They are their own sentient being. The only way you can help is if they come to you freely. Otherwise, they hit rock bottom of their own volition.
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        swasdiva1 year, 5 months ago
        
        In that vein, who commits the evil? God or humans? And perhaps an omnipotent God already *has* saved his creations, considering the many prophets, spiritualists and philosophers who've spread teachings across the world. Teachings themselves are stagnant until we choose to do something with them, either follow their advice or twist them for selfish gain. Either way, we create this world, but the point of God is something greater than this world, more omniscient, pervading and intrinsic. A home to return to, a root, I guess. But truly, we can't argue either of us to be right or wrong. After all, if one human understood *everything*, how much of a human would they be?
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        swasdiva1 year, 5 months ago
        
        True, but that depends on your definition of imaginary. Look, I'm not going to argue the existence of God, because whether he/she/it's there or not is pretty much all in our heads, regardless. While I do believe in something bigger than me, I can appreciate those who don't and are still good people. Seriously, it takes a lot more to be good with no thought of reward than it does if you think you'll be compensated for good deeds. Guess that's why I like reading the gospels because Jesus basically says that: don't do good to expect a reward.
        Anyway, I respect your position, I just wish you had some respect for others who don't think the same way.
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        swasdiva1 year, 5 months ago
        
        Word, but I don't recall saying you were going to hell, unless of course you're referring to the Pope and not me. Hellfire, I believe in reincarnation! So I honestly don't even know why I'm blabbing on the subject!
        Glad you're not afraid. I'm not either. Guess that's why we're typing so much. ^^
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icelander1 year, 5 months ago

One quick question for the Pope: Where is your evidence?
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  bscarb1 year, 5 months ago
  
  In the Bible. (Duh!)
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thomas9981 year, 5 months ago

Is it just me or does that picture make the old dude look EVIL?
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    swasdiva1 year, 5 months ago
    
    Check out a site called www.ytmnd.com. Lots of hilarious vids about that idea!
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BhaktaRajPrabhu1 year, 5 months ago

The Vedas teach that life does not mean one life. Life is eternal, the soul (that's us) is also eternal. However, we incarnate into flesh and blood bodies of our own free will to separate ourselves from God and the world of spirit, and this is where our troubles begin. Yes, living a life of deliberately choosing evil behavior does have its consequences; our next embodiment may be one of suffering - either on a hellish planet and/or in an unpleasant body. But ETERNAL suffering? That would mean that God gives no second chances, and this is simply immature thinking.
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  icelander1 year, 5 months ago
  
  One quick question for the authors of the Vedas, who claim that there is a soul and it is immortal: Where is your evidence?
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BhaktaRajPrabhu1 year, 5 months ago

You can observe that your body changes, from childhood, to youth, to old age. Yet YOU don't change; you're simply witnessing these changes taking place. Who is this "you" doing the observing? Might you be something other than this bag of bones?
I've read books that claim "proof" of the non-existence of God, and I've read books that claim "proof" that He does exist. I think the matter of evidence is what you want to accept, and that's a tough nut to crack because it's rather subjective. What it comes down to is that each person, if they choose, must do his or her own research, and then decide.

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  bscarb1 year, 5 months ago
  
  Good job answering Icelander. I gave you a thumbs-down on the first post but this deserves a big thumbs-up!
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  icelander1 year, 5 months ago
  
  The only thing that is me is the configuration in the connections of neurons in my brain, more specifically my prefrontal cortex. Remove that and my "soul" disappears. Alter my brain, and I become a different person. Neuroscience is quite clear on this.
  There are independent standards for evidence. The problem is that people are not sufficiently trained in critical thinking that they cannot distinguish between proper evidence and things that are made up.
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    vor1 year, 5 months ago
    
    Excellent point Icelander. Having had a near death experience I can tell you that the brain pretty much shuts down. I remember sheer darkness with just a glimmer of light and that sound you hear when you smack your head real hard, it was kind of like an old TV when you turned it off. There was no St. Peter, or a tunnel, maybe in a figurative sense like a drain with your life going down. Coming back from such an experience was very strange.
    The concept of hell came from Gehenna, a garbage dump where criminals bodies were often burned outside of Jerusalem. Dante conceived the modern view of hell which of course makes little logical sense. But Hell was an essential part of the Church's control mechanism, still is. There has to a punishment for the wicked at the end or there would be little too fear.
    I just wonder how many of the popes would be in such a place? Certainly quite a few from the early years.
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      bscarb1 year, 5 months ago
      
      Are you expecting your brain to start up again soon?
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      icelander1 year, 5 months ago
      
      The experience of death is one I'm looking forward to having. It's the one experience that nobody can truly communicate to anyone. You only went halfway there, akin to going to the Grand Canyon and turning around in Kansas.
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        mikhurst1 year, 5 months ago
        
        do you believe there will be consciousness after your death?
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        icelander1 year, 5 months ago
        
        Of course not, but the trip will be fun.
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        mikhurst1 year, 5 months ago
        
        how would one experience "fun", much less anything at all, if one is not conscious of it?
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        icelander1 year, 5 months ago
        
        It will be fun, up until the point of unconsciousness.
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        mikhurst1 year, 5 months ago
        
        I guess it might depend on the means by which you die, wouldn't it? What if you spent a year and a half (which could be considered a relatively short period of time) suffering in a hospital bed before you got to experience your "fun"?
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        icelander1 year, 5 months ago
        
        Of course. I've often said that I'm not really afraid of death, I'm afraid of the pain and suffering it takes to get there. If I could avoid that, death wouldn't be all that bad.
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        mikhurst1 year, 5 months ago
        
        Life after we retire these bodies to the earth is either going to be the best of the best, or the worst of the worst. It's not just going to be a nice peaceful Zzzzzzzzzzz.....
        You say you're afraid of pain and suffering. But that's only temporal. What you should be mindful of is ETERNAL pain and suffering. That IS promised if one openly rejects the redemption of Jesus Christ.
        It's relatively easy to accept Jesus Christ. I can't fathom what it would be like to remain forever wanting Him, but knowing I openly and willfully denied Him.
        As a matter of fact, since I've come to know Him, I couldn't bear a minute without Him. It's THAT good, dude.
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        icelander1 year, 5 months ago
        
        Where is your evidence of this afterlife, outside of the bible, which makes no claims that are verifiable or that aren't made outside of any holy book?
        And I could say the same thing about atheism that you make about christianity.
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        mikhurst1 year, 5 months ago
        
        Why would I use anything "outside of the Bible"? It is the infallible "Word of God". Jehovah is the maker of ALL creation. He provided ALL of the subject material. The Holy Spirit wrote it. And Jesus came to earth and proved every prophecy relative to His birth, life, death and resurrection. But it's not over yet. There's more prophecies to be fulfilled. Since every prophecy written in that book has come true, we tend to believe the rest are coming - for sure. You may not believe this because you haven't done it (yet), but when one places his or her trust in God, He gives one the faith, the wisdom and the insight to know that one has not erred. I can say beyond a shadow of a doubt that when I pass from this earth, I will spend eternity with my Father, in heaven. I tell you, no athiest can say that!
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        icelander1 year, 5 months ago
        
        "I can say beyond a shadow of a doubt that when I pass from this earth, I will spend eternity with my Father, in heaven. I tell you, no athiest can say that!"
        That's because atheists require more proof than the rantings of Bronze Age sheep herders.
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    thomas9981 year, 5 months ago
    
    I think the Poop knows the truth. But if he admitted that the Church was a sham that was used to blackmail people into doing what they wanted and coughing up 10% of their earning he might see a drop in the Church's budget.
    Organized religion is just the first and most successful form of organized crime. In fact, its probably worse than the mafia. At least they are honest, "give me your money or I'll kill ya." With the Churches its, "give me your money and I'll give you paradise." Some dumb rubes do it for their life and when they die they don't get the payoff... oh well at least they don't have a spirit to realize they were screwed.
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      gregis31 year, 5 months ago
      
      Can you supply some proof for your views? Because at this point it seems they are just the product of envy.
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        thomas9981 year, 5 months ago
        
        The proof is that the God in the Bible, at least in the first part of the Bible, was a no nonsense God that struck down anyone that got on his bad side.
        I didn't see God smacking down Hitler, that's your proof.
        Show me one time he's done a damn thing.
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        swasdiva1 year, 5 months ago
        
        The problem with any form of ancient thought, be it the Bible or myth, was that people attributed human events to Godly guidance. Yours is a good point, but that's why I tend to focus on the Gospels. Jesus' concepts are much more abstract and universal than many of the stories found in our english old testaments. I'd actually love to read the original hebrew, just to see how further translations might have misrepresented original concepts. Wow...tangent. Anyway, it's good to have a critical mind like yours, but be careful not to confuse bible-bashing with freedom of thought. Study everything you can get your hands on and then you can see where people are coming from. ^^
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        swasdiva1 year, 5 months ago
        
        Or Aramaic/Greek (depending), sheesh on a stick.
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        gregis31 year, 5 months ago
        
        Hitler got smacked down. He experienced such utter despair that he killed himself. Not every bad person in the Old Testament was "smacked down" while on earth.
        You have yet to supply any proof.
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        thomas9981 year, 5 months ago
        
        You missed the point, your God is all knowing all mighty and the Jews were/are his chosen people. So either God is an utter failure for letting millions of Jew get gassed by Hitler (which can't be the case if he is all knowing and all mighty) or he doesn't exist.
        The fact is the Bible was filled with fable and BS, anytime something bad happened it was attributed to GOD and he was doing it for some great purpose. Well face facts, your GOD destroyed Sodom, Gomorrah, Admah, Zeboim, and Bela... he didn't spare any of the infants of which any city has numerous numbers of them. So your GOD is a baby killing f&&k, now if that's your version of GOD I want no part of it.
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        gregis31 year, 4 months ago
        
        No, that would be your distorted view of the truth. That is not my God.
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    swasdiva1 year, 5 months ago
    
    Icelander, I think when Jesus references Hell he's talking about what you refer to as ceasing to exist/be conscious after the moment of death. It's really not eternal suffering at all so much as it is nihility. In truth, you're quite aligned with the Pharisees at the time of Christ. Hmm...I sound like I'm lambasting you, but really I just mean it's interesting that your concept has existed for quite awhile. I don't believe that will happen to everyone (the ceasing to exist) but perhaps what happens after you die is what you *believe* will happen after you die. So since I'm a Catholic who believes in reincarnation, I'm doomed! ^_^
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bscarb1 year, 5 months ago

We have information from someone who came to earth from heaven - Jesus. He told us about heaven and hell.
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  icelander1 year, 5 months ago
  
  We have information from someone who *claimed to* come from heaven, who may not have even existed, and whose message was coopted numerous times by people seeking power and who provided absolutely no physical evidence.
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    inaroundabout1 year, 5 months ago
    
    You make a good point. Even if you do believe Jesus was the son of God and the bible was "written" by the holy spirit how do you account for the numerous differences between different copies and translations. Do you need to read the bible in Hebrew to know the true meaning or do you need to read it in Greek? Or maybe the King James version is good enough. They all say slightly different things in many different places so which one is right?
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      swasdiva1 year, 5 months ago
      
      I would think the original language would be the best bet for understanding. Wonder how long it takes to learn hebrew or aramaic?
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        swasdiva1 year, 5 months ago
        
        I don't think all of it was written in greek originally. If so, care to name some sources? And I'm not being sarcastic...
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        swasdiva1 year, 5 months ago
        
        Well by golly. Color me ignorant. Regardless, Mr. Technicality, I'd sure as hell like to understand the root language of the writings. IJS.
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  thomas9981 year, 5 months ago
  
  Actually he didn't tell us a damn thing. Nothing in the Bible was written by Jesus (if he in fact existed). The only references about Jesus were written by other people, so your not actually getting anything from the horses mouth. If you believe any of what Jesus was supposed to have said, the you would know that one of his disciples was going to betray him. How do you know it wasn't one of the dudes cranking out letters about him like Matthew? It is completely possible that Judas wasn't the one that betrayed him, as he was in fact doing what he was told to do.
  Maybe the Gospel of Thomas was more telling of Jesus, but left out because it didn't allow the Church to act on God's behalf. Maybe every time you set foot in a "Christian Church" you are in fact paying respect to the anti-Christ and not Christ at all.
  Then again maybe there is no God just random events that brings to the present.
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    bscarb1 year, 5 months ago
    
    The Gospel of Thomas contains no narratives of the life of Jesus. It is a collection of so-called sayings by Jesus. Some of these sayings are from Matthew, Mark and Luke and others seem to be made up.
    It has sayings like, 'For a woman to be saved, she must become a man'. Only a moron would think that garbage like that belongs in the New Testament.
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      thomas9981 year, 5 months ago
      
      Funny you would pick the one quotation from the Gospel of Thomas that is most likely not actually written by him. Not only was it added at the end of the list of quotation but it does not fit within the other quotes.
      You also are assuming that Thomas was copying Matthew and the boys. It is just as possible that Matthew and company copied from Thomas and crafted their fable around what he correctly reported.
      Then again I guess its easier to just accept the sound bites from a preacher who's whole lifestyle is dependent on him convincing you the Bible is true than to use any common sense and thought of your own.
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infidell2space1 year, 5 months ago

Thomas998, I'll second this --- (((Then again maybe there is no God just random events that brings to the present.))) It's amazing that people in the 21st century could / believe ancient, ignorant superstitious mum-bo jumbo.
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