
Religion – Sitting side by side for the first time in history, the leaders of Northern Ireland's major Protestant and Catholic parties announced a stunning deal Monday to forge a power-sharing administration. The breakthrough followed unprecedented negotiations between the Protestants of the Democratic Unionist Party and the Catholics of the Sinn Fein.
This problem will never be solved. Bill Clinton came the closest,he got them to stop killing each other for awhile, but unless the two side inter-marry, and they share their faiths for a generation or so, they will never know peace. Their economy is roaring, and they are still not happy. They remind me of our Liberals. Nothing is good enough.
My views of this is very tainted. On one hand I know that the killing over the centuries has been a folly of some sorts. The Irish Catholic has been wanting their own parliment and country during this whole time.
Like the next person on here I think England is a fun place to visit. But I think their hold over the Irish has gone on long enough. Just like Scotland getting their own parliment back. It is time for the English to get out of the Irish.
Look at it this way, for over 1500 years England has used Eire for one thing or another and never gave a crap about the people. The English has never liked the Catholic Irish and have been trying to get rid of them for, forever. Think of ya'lls arguement about Palestine, this has been going on longer than that. Even though they both have been a problem forever. But aint it time for The Irish Catholic to have a voice in THEIR Country? All of the Protestents are transplants, not from Ireland. Sounds like how a Palestinian came about too.
Yes Very Very uniformed. For English read British. Scotland are still part of the United Kingdom & devolution is not a precursor of independance. Also, Scotland still have the same number of members of parliament (at Westminster) as before devolution. In fact Blair, Brown and other ministers are Scottish. Even the England Football manager has a Scottish name. Wales also have devolution. The Irish already have their own parliament in a little country called Eire. Ulster is British and there is no reason for this to change as long as the majority of people want it that way. If they vote through the ballot box and not the gun for unification then so be it. Thank goodness Paisley has at last seen sense in acknowledging that power should be shared with the significant Catholic population and we can see a lasting peace. Please don't think of the IRA and UVF etc as freedom fighters. They were murderers plain and simple.
What the hell was the matter with these people?>>>
It's a very long story, spanning centuries. In Ireland, a 'mixed marriage' means a protestant marrying a catholic, & it can lead to violence as well as being ostracized by community & even family. This is especially true in Northern Ireland, where 'mixed marriage' families may send their children to mixed schools, where all the children have parents of differing religious sects. That way, their children aren't beaten up. But before you gasp at this, there were pockets in our own country that frowned on marrying out of your religion, and people could be real jackasses about it. I'm sure this thinking still exists, but it isn't openly confronted like it once was.
"What the hell was the matter with these people? It is absolutely stupid that these people were warring each other."
Do you even know s*hit about the history of Ireland? This is huge. I've spent the past couple months living in the republic (and I'm here until the end of May), and i've been learning about these problems first hand. Granted, it may be a bit biased because i am in the south, but this country (as a whole) has had such a sad little history, and i think this news is fantastic. I mean, there are parts in the north (like Shankhill) where if you have the wrong accent, you will be beaten.
Again, I for one am happy this step as been made. Maybe now, even if Ireland is never united, it can at least be peaceful and safe.
We can only hope that this is one small step that will lead to greater strides in the future. Having visited Northern Ireland in 2005, I came away with the feeling that it is poised on the edge of some big changes. What with the Irish economy booming and the young population, there is a psychological push to look forward, not back. I also got the impression that most of the animosity is amongst the lower classes. If in time everyone feels they have an equal opportunity at prosperity the hatred will fade, but it will happen slowly. This is a country where nothing happens quickly!
I'm having trouble posting.. My comment is that in fact the changes in the Republic of Ireland have been astonishing during the last decade which has seen the economy soar from a basket case to one of the most developed and prosperous in Europe. This has been achieved by taking advantage of every possible EU grant and incentive to encourage investment largely in "clean" high-tech industries.
Unfortunately this is not a tale of unmitigated success. Along with the economic boom the drug trade has also rapidly expanded with some of the most vicious international gangs operating out of Ireland and a serious domestic problem to boot.
Most of your posters know f--- all about the irish situation,i myself am a scots irish girl,Ireland is divided in two,northern Ireland is British protestant,the rest of Ireland is Catholic, to see these two people sitting at the same table is absolutely wonderful,i never thought i would see this in my lifetime,i think the Americans have a silly romantic view of the Irish,but so many Irish young men died for the cause,be they protestant or catholic,to see the beginning of the end of all this hatred is so wonderful..thank you for reading this...May.
goldie64, it seems as though you know close to nothing about the Irish situation either. Northern Ireland is most certainly NOT 'British Protestant' as you say...and the rest of Ireland is not all 'Catholic'. How do I know this? Because I lve in Derry/Londonderry. Catholics make up a large percentage of the popuation of Northern Ireland and there are many Protestants living in the Republic of Ireland. There are numerous Orange lodges in the Republic. It's sweeping generalisations and long out of date sterotypes that we need to get rid of in order to look at a brighter future for everyone on this isalnd.
To see both sides at the table IS indeed wonderful though.
And to aniokly, the Northern Ireland economy is far from roaring.
As an European I am always amazed that Americans think they have the solution for everything. I am happy that they finally sit down together, that is a big step forward. But the problems are far from being solved.
As far as the British getting out of Northern Ireland, that is not a reasonable dream. And to accuse the Northern Irish of being from somewhere else, ask yourself, where did your ancestors come from. Unless you are 100% American Indian you too are a trespasser and should go back home. Or does that come to close for comfort.
With this long-running problem, there is a tendency to say "seen it before, and it didn't work" but this time there is greater cause for hope, since the inter-sectarian killing seems to have stopped more or less completely. With Paisley appearing to have mellowed in his extreme old age, perhaps the road to a lasting solution has at least been found.
I remember Ian Paisley ranting on the TV news about the papists trying to infiltrate honest and decent neighborhoods, and taking away jobs from hardworking Protestants. Ah the scruffy dirty buggers those papists are! Imagine juxtoposing those images with "Bull" Connors setting his dogs on demonstrators in Birmingham.
History may evolve, but some of those players never do. They can't even fade away silently.
i knew on saturday or sunday night when i saw that paisley wouldn't agree to the terms of the deal that on monday morning i would see that he would - and so here we are - what a surprise. being an apolitical northern irish catholic who left ireland's shores almost twenty-four years ago, all i can say is - who gives a shi_t. the terrorists on both sides - and they are terrorists, make no mistake - will be the eventual losers from this deal. it'll take a few years, but in the interim their drug running, protection racket, prostitution money - aka freedom fighting donations - will dry up. the last thing england wants is northern ireland, and both sides know it. why would london want to continue to fund - in the form of unemployment benefits if nothing else - a bunch of good for nothing unemployed northern irish - who would rather spend their time perpetuating a centuries old moronic struggle than get a job. 30 years of conflict = 3000 odd dead, crap compared with a few years of iraq.
oh,and by the way, i work in an office that has jews, muslims, catholics and protestants and i could give a shi_t as to who is who. there are many people in northern ireland who think the same way, just not enough - yet. when a sufficient enough percentage do then the problems of the day - or should i say "troubles" - will cease to exist. the northern irish people themselves need to decide whether or not they want to be considered as the backward retard of the european union or as an equal partner worthy of the billions of eu euro charity case money they presently receive, because, let's face it, they haven't contributed a single cent into those same euro coffers.
martinen
'a bunch of good for nothing unemployed northern irish - who would rather spend their time perpetuating a centuries old moronic struggle than get a job. 30 years of conflict'
do you really think unemployed people in Northern Ireland want to sit on the dole on £57 a week? You really should think again.
By the way, alluding to the deaths 3000 people being 'crap' compared to another conflict is not only irrelevant but an sad indictment of your intellect.
do you really think unemployed people in Northern Ireland want to sit on the dole on £57 a week?
What they want aside, that's what happens.
espse,
actually, you're wrong. You seem to think that jobs appear out of thin air. Unemployment figures in all economic blackspots in the UK match those of Northern Ireland. When companies really start investing in Northern Ireland (and many successfully have, such as Seagate and Dupont) you will see a very positive change. There is a very highly educated workforce waiting to be tapped into. GCSE and A' level exam pass rates consistently top those in mainland UK.
I was in Wexford Ireland once & went to a bottle shop to buy a bottle of Jameson Whiskey that was only available in Ireland. The clerk had none but held up two bottles of different brands- "both of these are as good as the Jameson's " she said . "which one would you suggest?" I asked. She said they were both equal, but she then thrusted one bottle foward and said -" but this one has a good Catholic name".
In Ireland it seems even the booze has a religious preference
I am not sure that our US cousins can have ANY real idea of what has happened here. And as for taking the "credit" on behalf of Bill Clinton .....
You should perhaps consider the real implications of this very curious "peace process". It involves, effectively, an undemocratic constitution in which the major parties have to govern together. It would be like having Blair as Prime Minister, and Cameron as his deputy, with a cabinet consisting of members of parties with opposing views, all trying to run the country in harmony. ALl that can happen at election time is that the two leaders might change chairs. Where is the electoral choice in such an arrangement?
Would we care for this in England? No. Would you like it in the USA?
No, I thought not!
Very similar to Iraq. Kissenger, on the Charlie Rose show, spoke of what a huge idiotic blunder Iraq was, because democracy doesn't work when there are tribes that put tribalism above country. Voting doesn't work. Same can be said of the tribes of religiously brainwashed Catholics in Ireland, brainwashed Protestants in Ireland (despite the FACT these so called tribes are exactly identically genetically, along with the English). That's why the current ideological tribe of American conservatives, who blindly put their idealism ahead of what's best for the country, have dragged American into the greatest clusterf... in history. Democracy doesn't work when a sect of hard core ideologs are in control. The conservative cult in america is a shining example of how to destroy democracy.
This is a true story.
When Mickey Rourke was filming 'A Prayer For The Dying' in Belfast, he asked to be shown around the city. When he was driven past the staunchly loyalist Sandy Row area of the city he asked why there were Union Jacks etc there. The driver told him it was a Protestant area to which Rourke replied, "But there are no Protestants in Ireland."
Having spent a fair amount of time in both Republic and North, I am happy to see this. It has been a slow but inexorable progress, as young people become more global in their thinking and also envious in the North of the booming economy in the Republic (which has been going on more than just ten years btw.)
I'll never forget hearing Paisley the 1st time on the radio in Boston in the 70s. I thought it was a dramatised translation of Hitler's speeches, I couldn't figure out why the actor had an Irish accent...when I realised the speaker was a living politian of the the same background as me (Scottish & Irish) I was so shocked.
I've met folk from both "camps" and witnessed the difference in the north before and after 1994/95 - people would actually look you in the eye and be friendly whereas before they were suspicious and grim!
So I think just being able to be Irish (e.g. friendly, neighborly, helpful & outgoing) in itself made a big difference.
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But no handshake!
yeah, and neither Blair nor Adams had the decency to give Paisley a reach-around!