This Story is Archived
How Hubble Killed God... »
Posted by: Fedquip 1 year, 11 months agoMarch 9, 2004: NASA releases a single image taken by the Hubble Space telescope that proves a fatal blow to the concept of God, but despite the compelling evidence, many simply don't comprehend the significance of the image.
Read Full Story at paralleldivergence.com »
Submitted By:
Fedquip
I have been a Propeller Scout since November 2006. I am also work as an Internet Archivist and Curator with Mahalo.com, I tend to ...
Also submitted:
This Story is Archived and Commenting is Closed
Comments: 44
-
-
Newenglander
Nov. 15, 2006, 12:53 p.m.There is so much evidence showing man has been around for much more than six thousand years and even more evidence that the universe has been around for billions of years that there is no rationale for creationists to grasp onto to prove their point. Seems silly to me.
-
ameliog
Nov. 15, 2006, 2:34 p.m.Not all Christians believe that the earth was created in six 24-hour days, although those types are very vocal. They take a strictly literal interpretation of the Genesis account. In centuries past, the bible was interpreted by equally vocal types to argue that the earth was flat, and was the center of the universe. Those views are now completely discredited. People who state with certainty that they totally understand the interpretation of the Bible are acting more out of false pride than true knowledge.
Belief in God and the Bible is not contradicted by science or an old universe. When Jesus was dying on the cross and the criminal hanging next to him said "Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom", Jesus didn't say, "That depends - How old do YOU think the earth is?".
The old earth/young earth doctrinal arguments are issues causing division and squabbling within the Church, but have no bearing on salvation.
-
Redneck
Nov. 16, 2006, 1:25 a.m.". . .but have no bearing on salvation." With that statement I totally agree. /
BUT whether or not it was created in six 24-hour days, does have bearing on interpretation of the rest of Scripture. if God was trying to "communicate" with mankind it seems reasonable He would use language and words which can be understood by man. For me "day -- the evening and morning of the first" means 24 hours. It has always been 24 hours. If God uses a word commonly understood and yet it was not as defined then perhaps other words and concepts used are not "true" to language either. That then leaves one in limbo as to understanding the meaning of any passage.
This approach has been around for thousands of years. Jewish rabbis began it. Christian theologians pick it up later. It is all an allegory with no true facts! If so then your salvation and mine is in question. ;-( I can discuss this further off list if you wish. :-)
-
espse
Dec. 15, 2006, 7:18 a.m.There is absolutely no evidence there was ever an actual person "Jesus", and there is absolutely no evidence there is a heaven, hell, satan, angels, soul, afterlife, and any of the other bullsh.. concepts like salvation.
God is an absurdity, you have to prove an absurdity, and there is no proof. Not one single shred of evidence, no experiment you can do, nothing but blind irrationality. You talk like you were there listening to what this fictional character was saying as he was being killed like thousands of other political dissenters of the time were killed by the Roman dictatorship. It's a Jewish fairy tale. Its a steaming pile of bullsh.......
-
-
Eagle_Eye
Nov. 15, 2006, 7:24 p.m.There is a problem when man tries to put his time on God's time. I also believe that God, being a first time creator took his time refining his creation, hence the dinosaurs, Neanderthals, etc.
When God felt that a particular design for the most intelligent of creation was ready, he created us aside from the rest.
There is a magnificent picture of the Helix Nebula; it is the closest thing to seeing God as I have seen on this earth, thanks to the Hubble.
-
Redneck
Nov. 16, 2006, 1:35 a.m.One approach to Genesis is that earth was created "in the Beginning." If so it was outside of TIME. Then the creation account is the re-forming of earth and implanting of man.
But as Creator God could cause light to reach the earth from day ONE because that is why He created the stars and constellations. The text is clear: "lights in the heavens to serve the earth." Well if the Timeline of the earth was to be only seven thousand years and the light from them would take 10 thousands light years to reach us . . . Duh God is not a dummy!! But men who want to dismiss Him are!! They cannot allow themselves to think outside of their pre-conceived ideas.
Always looking for something to support their beliefs!!
Quoting a friend of mine: Sin is a certain form of insanity." I might add stupidity and arrogance because PRIDE of intellect is always at play. :-)
-
Eagle_Eye
Nov. 16, 2006, 9:41 a.m." Always looking for something to support their beliefs!!" I agree with that or they are always trying to prove God doesn't exist.
-
-
airborneone
Nov. 16, 2006, 4:16 a.m.I can only sit back and laugh as man is always trying to run from things he doesn't understand. They finally repair the Hubble Telescope and The thought is a couple of pictures of Space took GOD out. How Arrogant can you be? NO matters how hard man tries You can't run from GOD.
I remember as a young man I did something wrong and I tried to Hide to avoid My punishment. That is how man acts through out his life.
I understand a little of why Jesus said " Father Forgive Them, FOR THEY KNOW NOT WHAT THEY DO."
Something they can't explain they try and kill .
GOD FORGIVE US ALL
-
uknowdamnright
Nov. 16, 2006, 6:25 a.m.Someone please explain to me how every person on the planet can have different eyes, different finger prints, and a different face if there is no God. God gave us a brain to think and discover, but you know what the best of all is, even you non believers will be saved when you are at the end of your lives and suddenly you believe. Church attendance was over 100 percent on the Sunday after 911. They are coming back and God will save our souls.
-
edromar2
Nov. 16, 2006, 8:12 a.m.uknowdamnright
Well that is the first endorsement of 9/11 I've heard--Terrorism makes people religious! So that is why right wingers seek to create a war with Islam and bring on Armageddon, cause then they think their religion will be proved right, and lots of people will be saved even if they don't get 70 virgins since there will be none left among the born again Christians who lost theirs before they had the hel;l scared out of them by the religious war they have promoted with Islam? When will these theocrats with religious motives for terror and war realize that man and his happiness is all that man.s morality allows us to care about, not whether or mot man is religious or subscribes to one doctrine or another about some fictional concept of God?
Even the nearest star is farther from earth in light years than the supposed age of creation according to the pseudo-religious fundamentalist who literally mis read and misunderstand even the mythological texts that do exist.
-
ChefEOD
Nov. 16, 2006, 8:58 a.m.I doubt that was the meaning. (1) History has many example of how persecution causes growth in the church. (2) Think of that colloquialism "there are no atheists in fox holes". Many/most/all people when faced with something terrifying will attempt to turn to something/someone else to help them make sense of the insanity of the situation or to 'save' them from the situation.
-
-
ChefEOD
Nov. 16, 2006, 9:33 a.m.For those who may not know or understand the reasoning of literal creationists perhaps this will help some.
There are several passages in scripture that in essence describe portions of the creative act Job 9:8 is one "He alone spreads out the heavens". The Hebrew word used here for 'spreads out' is
natah (naw-taw'); which literally means to stretch or cause to spread out. We have known for a long time that the universe is moving, expanding. We also know that what we see today "began" and came into being in an instant and from a single point - what is popularly known as "the big bang". And there are some studies that indicate that the speed of light is slowing down. We are not told exactly, in todays scientific terms, what occurred here in creation.
-
ChefEOD
Nov. 16, 2006, 9:33 a.m.What is speculated by creationists is that what we do see & know and know as "the big-bang" was that first instant when God spoke and the material universe sprang into existence. Creationists don't really argue that there was no big bang, they just see the cause as being God, and that the expansion of the universe took place much more rapidly than the billions of years evolution proposes.
-
ChefEOD
Nov. 16, 2006, 9:34 a.m.As to 6 24-hour days... A look into the Hebrew text and the specific words and wording used leave little other interpretation, some just 'choose' not to see it this way.
The word for day is 'yom'. In every other bible passage where this word is used (410 times) it always refers to a literal 24 hour day and no one has ever questioned those other passages and their meaning.
Two other words used in Genesis 1, used with the word day, are "morning" and "evening". Outside Genesis 1, yom is used with the word 'evening' or 'morning' 23 times. 'Evening' and 'morning' appear in association, but without yom, 38 times. In all 61 times the text refers to an ordinary day and no one has ever questioned those meanings to be otherwise.
-
ChefEOD
Nov. 16, 2006, 9:35 a.m.In Genesis 1:5, yom occurs in context with the word 'night.' Outside of Genesis 1, 'night' is used with yom 53 times-and each time it means an ordinary day. Why would Genesis 1 be the exception? Even the usage of the word 'light' with yom in this passage determines the meaning as ordinary day.
There are words in biblical Hebrew (such as olam or qedem) that are very suitable for communicating long periods of time, or indefinite time, but none of these words are used in Genesis 1. Alternatively, the days or years could have been compared with grains of sand if long periods were meant.
-
ChefEOD
Nov. 16, 2006, 9:35 a.m.Dr James Barr (Regius Professor of Hebrew at Oxford University), who himself does not believe Genesis is true history, nonetheless admitted as far as the language of Genesis 1 is concerned that: " ... so far as I know, there is no professor of Hebrew or Old Testament at any world-class university who does not believe that the writer(s) of Gen. 1-11 intended to convey to their readers the ideas that creation took place in a series of six days which were the same as the days of 24 hours we now experience.
-
Eagle_Eye
Nov. 16, 2006, 9:47 a.m."writer(s) of Gen. 1-11 intended to convey to their readers the ideas that creation took place in a series of six days which were the same as the days of 24 hours we now experience."
The key word here is "Writers", men who wrote the words only knowing their conception of time, not God's....again, man holding God to their concept of time.
-
-
Eagle_Eye
Nov. 16, 2006, 1:13 p.m.I have often wondered about God's time and man's time. One of the things that I wondered about was how old the people lived in Genesis.
I had an interesting thought one day that if you take the age of the old men and divided it by 12 that you had a more modern life span then that of the bible. That has led me to think that perhaps even then in the very beginning of writing the book, that man may have been counting lunar months as years instead of our 12 month year. It is just a thought.
-
Redneck
Nov. 16, 2006, 2:28 p.m.The Genesis account says God reduced the days of men. After the flood the theory is that gamma rays began to reach the earth as never before and cell destruction resulted in shorter life spans. This is entirely plausible. It is as good a theory as any other scientists are offering. Those offering this explanation have grounds in the Bible for supporting theories that there was a protective barrier of ice crystals in the upper atmosphere or beyond in space. Saturn has ice and gas rings perhaps the earth had a canopy around most of the earth causing a greenhouse effect. Could be. It would explain many things which baffle scientists.
-
-
ChefEOD
Nov. 16, 2006, 3:03 p.m.That makes sense on one level of logic. However, Christians must believe in the authenticity of the scriptures to being exactly what it claims to be, The Word of God.
2 Tim 3:16 "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God"
[Is given by inspiration of God] All this is expressed in the original by one word 'Theopneustos'. This word occurs nowhere else in the New Testament. It properly means, God-inspired-from Theos "God," and pneoo "to breathe, to breathe out." The idea of "breathing upon, or breathing into the soul," is that which the word naturally conveys.
2 Peter 1:20-21 "knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit."
-
ChefEOD
Nov. 16, 2006, 3:04 p.m.The Greek phrase here 'hupo pneumatos hagiou feromenoi' means, "borne along, moved, influenced" by the Holy Ghost. The idea is, that in what they spoke they were "carried along" by an influence from above. They moved in the case only as they were moved; they spoke only as the influence of the Holy Ghost was upon them.
If Christians do not believe in this, then of what use or truth is any of the Scriptures other than something made by man that could be filled with error and flaw?
-
ChefEOD
Nov. 16, 2006, 6:44 p.m.diogenes12
Why do you constantly go on the attack every time when you see anything Christian?
And please, if you examine ANY group of people you will find criminals and degenerates and people misleading others and people being misled. Christianity is no different IN THAT and has never claimed to be. And also consider that not all who call themselves Christian are such - also no different than any other religion or group of people. Why the Bible itself says as much and says it often. Probably the best and most horrifying example is in Matt 7:22-23 Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!' It is the teachings & principles upheld by a religion or group that should be examined & critiqued.
-
ChefEOD
Nov. 16, 2006, 6:53 p.m."Well chef, seems the "words" are awfully subject to different interpretation"
No, not really. The words are however certainly subject to being twisted, taken out of context, and misused, especially when only looking to the English translations. But both the Greek and Hebrew languages are quite precise and detailed. I would challenge you to this - IF you are a believer in and lover of the God of the Bible - you will find nothing in Scripture that is offensive or contradictory unless it is being taken out of context and misunderstood.
-
-
annoDomini
Nov. 16, 2006, 7:25 p.m.Ameliog is right: some believers do not claim that the universe is 6000 yrs old. The Bible is the revelation of God to humans for our understanding. It includes important information about the relationships we should have with God and the relationships we should have other humans and the relationships we should have with God's creation. It is NOT primarily a scientific reference. I believe that the Bible does not contradict what we observe - or rather, if the Bible contradicts what we observe, perhaps it is our misinterpretation of the Bible that is at fault.
-
annoDomini
Nov. 16, 2006, 11 p.m.Some in this thread have tried to focus on words like "yom", saying that they always are interpretted as 24 hours. Consider Proverbs 4:4-18 >>
>>Do not enter the path of the wicked,
>>...
>>For they eat the bread of wickedness,
>>And drink the wine of violence.
>>But the path of the just is like the shining sun,
>>That shines ever brighter unto the perfect day.
The last word in that quote is "yom". So, is that a 24-hour period? I suggest it is a symbol of a perfect time, indeed a long period, maybe even eternity.
-
-
ChefEOD
Nov. 19, 2006, 8:29 p.m.annoDomini
To begin with the word used here (Proverbs 4:4-18) is not 'yom', it is 'yowm'. As it is used here, with this particular sentence structure & syntax, 'yowm' is a figurative form of the root word 'yom'. There are a couple of rare instances where 'yowm' does mean a literal day but definitely not here, this entire passage is metaphor and allegory. Your argument is meaningless.
-
-
annoDomini
Nov. 16, 2006, 11:07 p.m.But it makes me feel awkward paying so much attention to that one word. Trying to read too much into each of the words is a problem because it takes us away from the intended teaching. Understanding the word "day" in Genesis to mean "the time for one revolution of the earth" or not does not take away from the truth that "God created the universe" (the heavens and the earth), which is the point, after all.
But to the point in this thread about whether the Bible is reliable, if we understand Genesis to be telling us Who created and the general order in which the universe was created and NOT to put so much emphasis on the 24-hour period, that does not make the remainder of the Bible faulty. It does mean that it is not an easy task for those who have a faith that seeks understanding.
-
ChefEOD
Nov. 19, 2006, 9:02 p.m.amelog
All the way back to the 3rd post in this thread - Sorry but I did not see this when first posted. I noticed that the thread has apparently died and was rereading.
To say that, "Belief in God & the Bible is not contradicted by science or an old universe" is not accurate. No, science & the Bible are not at odds but the idea of an old earth is IF you include the creative acts told of in Genesis (especially the creation of life) as part of that old universe. The Bible is quite clear that God's creation of the material universe was perfect - perfect right up to the time that Adam & Eve sinned. The Bible is also quite clear the THE penalty for sin is death. The entire Gospel of Christ & man's need of a redeemer to pay the penalty of sin rests upon these things. If death & all that brings it existed before man sinned, then man is not the cause for death. If man's sin is not the cause then there is no justification for man to have to pay a penalty.
The first 43 comments are shown. Show all 44 comments »
Got a Story?
