The validity of this story is under dispute.
Religion – Statistically of course compared to Atheists and Agnostics that is. Figured released in the U.S by the Federal Bureau of Prisons, 1997 showed startlingly revelations.
C.K.:
I've replaced the URL with the actual non-redirecting URL to this story. Per member requests, I also added "Misinterpreting Prison Statistics:" to the beginning of the title to try to diffuse how inflammatory it sounds.
Also, here's some information from the about page of the blog from which this information came:
"The author of this blog suffers from a rare genetic disorder called an Arnold Chiari malformation, parts of his brain have grown larger than they normally should. This also means the pressure inside his skull is much higher than usual, this in turn causes his brain to be fed by large amounts of blood. He is a genius in terms of IQ (although feels IQ tests are poor judge of intelligence), he speaks in the third person when referring to himself (a clear sign of intelligence or madness), His disorder also causes pressure cavities to appear within his spinal cord - This has muted his ability to feel pain, though it will eventually destroy him for now he is stronger and can push further, harder for longer than an average man. The condition and the many surgeries he has under gone to try and correct it have begun to take its toll and he has decided before he debilitates further to publish all the wisdom his unique mind has to offer."
If you look up Arnold Chiari foundation on WebMD, you will find no mention of it ever leading to any sort of "genius" status, but rather leading to migraines and other headaches of varying degree depending upon the severity of the malformation.
Additionally, if you read the comments on the post linked to, you will see some very interesting observations, such as this comment by Jeff Cunningham: "Your stats aren't meaningful because you don't control for percentage of each religion in the population. One wouldn't expect to see a high Muslum prison population in the US because there aren't many Muslims. Conversely, in Iran, say, the numbers would very much reversed with out controlling for their relative ratios. Try again, but this time normalize by the percent of each religion in the population."
OpEd: This type of non-sensical statistical analysis gives me a headache. No vote from me.
2006-09-04 09:25:13
msaleem and Ed
Here's what I found:
Figures often beguile me, particularly when I have the arranging of them myself; in which case the remark attributed to Disraeli would often apply with justice and force: "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics."
- Autobiography of Mark Twain
(but, as yet no actual record of this under Disraeli's authorship)
I think if we all redirect the debate to this post, it will be better for everyone's health:
http://religion.netscape.com/story/2006/09/04/the-daily-show-islam-vs-christianity/
Let Steve Carrel and Steve Colbert decide.
EdRobertsII: {{Only statistic I'm worried about in prison is who's behind me in the shower.}}
Does this happened to you alot?
My question is where these people Christian before or after they got sent to prison?
{{A major study into average yearly incomes by Berry Kosmin in 1989 showed that more you believe in Jesus the less money you earn.}}
This I can believe! Some of the garbage that is fed to Cristians like "money is the root of all evil" and they swallow it hook, line and sinker! No wonder they remain in lower income brackets. It's a shame!
@worker, I don't think anyone really means harm here. We are all here to build a community. And I think its best if we assume responsibility for our mistakes and move on. Too often people will post something, and just start a flame war, that is not the right way.
As Netscape Navigators it is our responsibility to show the rest of the community the best practices in posting, commenting, and so on. But you must understand that we also make mistakes. All I can say is, just rock on.
'The "church" makes priests live in poverty - What is THAT??'
Don't worry, by and large priests' needs are provided for. They have enough to eat, a car to get around, a decent place to live (depending on the region, I would guess), etc. But we do try to keep 'em humble. Would you prefer that they be obscenely rich?
lady ducky: {{There are more important things in life.}}
This may be true for you but not all. Bottom line is that money is needed by all people to feed them, shelter them, clothe them and give them some luxuries in life. It isn't wrong to want to enjoy having material things. It isn't wrong to HAVE material things.
From what I remember about going to church they teach the opposite and I simply refuse to buy into it anymore.
"shall i convert to islam now? is that your goal w/this tripe?"
It seems to me that the author was comparing those that follow an organized religion to those that dont. It wasnt neccesary for the author to give the population of all the less popular religions in the US to make his point. He listed the population percentage of the Christians and the atheist witch is all that was neccesary.
JimEspo: Those who have been "led astray" earn their money dishonestly and immorally.
{{For the LOVE of money is A root of all kinds of evil.}}
I don't think this quote from the bible is meant as a statement to blanket ALL people. Power can be considered "A" root of all kinds of evil too depending upon its use. Lots of things can be considered A root of evil but when used correctly it isn't wrong to want it or have it.
If these statistics are true, and let's presume they are, they only go to support the Christian beliefs. I am a devout Christian and at one time a leader in my church, I am in position to speak about Christianity. To those who have not taken a moment to learn what Christianity is, my comments may be a revelation, if I may use that term. I have two observations.
1). Christians are no different than anyone one else who isn't a Christian. We are all sinners alike and fall short.
2). These statistics are debunk as far as the writer using them to prove a point that Christians are poor, stupid and immoral. In order to really substantiate this point, which I have already pointed out in my previous statement, (Christians are not different than non-Christians) the statistics must be gathered at the time when the prisoners were first incarcerated. It is a well known fact that prisoners convert after they are incarcerated, at to what extent, this I do not know but I am very curious to find out.
Hi, PaganGodess:
It certainly isn't wrong with having material things -- as you said, its how you obtain them. It's also a question of, do you own them or do they own you?
Seems your experience was with a church that teaches "Poor=Holiness." There are some churches that take a complete opposite approach and preach a "Prosperity Gospel": "God wants you to be rich, name it and claim it (your financial blessing) and it is a sin and bad witness to be poor."
With money you can do some positive and powerful things. But when it's the focus of your existence, it rules you rather than you ruling it. As in all things, balance is what's called for.
By no means am I trying to convert you, just trying to add some perspective. It is interesting the turn this story has taken -- I have posted another story in "Money" with additional perspective on this topic.
http://money.netscape.com/story/2006/09/04/is-money-the-root-of-all-evil/
TruthDector: {{It is a well known fact that prisoners convert after they are incarcerated, at to what extent, this I do not know but I am very curious to find out.}}
Yes, I too mentioned something about this in an earlier post.
Also, these statistics can be likened to going to a latin country and saying that most of the prison population is Latin. DUH! Ya THINK??
I think that not only do prisoners convert after being imprisoned but I also think (and this is a guess) that the majority religion in this country is Christianity.
I think this story could very well be true-
If you are so easily led, as to buy into Christianity, what is to say you would't be more vulnerable to getting involved in crime? Maybe what the stats should say is that weak minds equal crime.
My beef with religion has always been that it discourages introspection, and accountability, and teaches that there is an invisible man in the sky who is in charge of you, and keeping score, so you will be rewarded for "good" deeds. It teaches that if you screw someone over that you can ask "the invisible man" for forgivness....and be absolved!!! So WRONG! Accountability, questioning, reason, compassion, logic...that is my "religion". Time to evolve people.....
PaganGodess,
Are you trying to tell me for example, that most prisoners in Saudi Arabia are muslim? Blasphamy! :)
Yes we are a Nation of Christians, founded on Christianity with a majority poplution of Christians. One can only tell by observing our place and position in the world.
There are only two countries which were founded on the fact that all rights, liberties etc. are given by God and cannot be taken away by man. That would be the United States and Israel. All other governments are founded on the premise that all rights etc are granted by the government and can be taken away by the government.
I ony make these points because the article is trying to say that Christianily is bad, counter to the facts.
Jim: WOW! Sounds like you have found an AWESOME church! I had no idea that churches like the one that teaches what you describe even existed! Thank you.
For the record: I don't believe Christians are any less gifted with brains than the people of any other religion. I also think that priests are more likely to go into prisons to help save the "damned" if you will than say a leader of the Jewish religon or any other religion. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong about that.
peep: I am not Christian so I don't believe there is a "man in the sky" per say. I do believe in a power greater than myself but it does NOT control me! I am responsible for my actions.
Truth: {{Are you trying to tell me for example, that most prisoners in Saudi Arabia are muslim? Blasphamy! :)}} The nerve! (hehehehehehe!) I don't think Christianity is bad. I did not know that the US and Israel were the only two countries with such belief! We are AWESOME! No wonder we like Isreal! = ]
I am not Christian myself, but I must say, this is probably the stupidest article ever. What on Earth does your religion have to do with if you are good or bad? Bad people are bad and aren't gonna change just because their religion says otherwise. Criminal is a criminal whether underwater or on ground.
I see no correlation between the two and this article is 99% bogus.
In my profession I work with convicts. Many of them become devotees of one religion or another AFTER conviction, b/c they have concluded that they need to get on a different path and need help. Most become devout Christians b/c that is their family heritage ("I shoulda listened to Grandma when I was younger."). If the survey does not control for this effect--and I saw no indication that it did--then it is seriously flawed.
These statistics need to be applied to the poluation at large...of course there are more Christians and less Muslims ect..just like there are more Christian not in jail than more Musulims not in jail...because in this Country there are more Christians and less of everything else...some with more people more numbers in jail...but I would be more interested if this were a study of the percentage of US chistians in Jail vs the % of every other religon in jail broken down by their respective % of the population...that would make more sense...
PaganGodess:
((Let me just add that Chirstianity does not MAKE you stupid, immoral or poor. People do that all on their own without any outside help!))
Amen to that.
Also, I didn't say that I endorse the Prosperity Gospel and/or attend a church where that is the focus -- just that I've been exposed to them. And believe me, they practice what they preach! :-)
Peepmo, what you call your "religion" really does exists. They are called the Unitarian Universalists www.uua.org and they are an organized religion. The comment "my beef with religion" is too much of a blanket statement and could not apply to the UUs. (Five U.S. Presidents were UUs, it began in the 1550s in Europe, so it is not new, big on social justice concerns and the members of the congregation vote on all decisions -no religious hierarchy). As one of their ad banners state they are Different People, Different Beliefs One Faith.
EdRobertsII, love your comments, I want to find a butt plug of my own... just in case.
I think you're right about attributing the quote to Disraeli; I think Mark Twain once said "A man with a foot in a tub of freezing water and another in a tub of boiling water should, statistically, feel perfectly fine"
As a Christian, I better not ruin my reputation and go start causing trouble, become more stupid, and bury my money.
Greetings again to Pagon Goddess
and everyone,
Can I make a point by asking a question? It seems that everyone is all over the page, and is on different pages, when it comes to Christianity. I find this to be common with those who have opinions of Christians and Christianity and yet have not taken the time to know what it is. I do not say this with any intent to criticize. I think that it would help if everyone knew the definition of Christianity. Now, first make note, I am not out to prove everyone who is not Christian as wrong but quite the contrary, I can show you that everyone is right. I think this definition best comes from a Christian them self, and I would be obliged if anyone would find it at all interesting. I am only withholding this (opinion) because I do not wish to be marked as someone who is out to impose or convert. I do find it a bit humorous from this end to find people arguing their different opinions and yet they are all individually right.(mostly)
Go ahead Truth. I'm listening.
{{I do find it a bit humorous from this end to find people arguing their different opinions and yet they are all individually right.(mostly)}}
I agree with this. It is like discussing cheese. Some like Havarti, some like Cheddar, some like Swiss. Each can be defined uniquely and yet they all share the same major ingredients!
PaganGodess,
My apologies for having tostep out.
These are the basic criteria that defines a Christian
1). I am not perfect. I have sinned. I admit it.
2). I am remorseful for any one, or all my sins.
3). I have asked for forgiveness, not from myself or from you, but from the only one who can forgive.
4). I am forgiven for all my sins, including the ones I have not committed yet.
5). Being forgiven and cleansed, I can now walk with God as Adam and Eve did before they sinned.
Take note: I am still not perfect. I still sin and will continue until I die. Just like you and any other. So all the criteria that everybody has expressed can be applied to Christians as well as Non-Christians.
These are just facts of a Christian. I do not wish to debate about the parts where belief comes in. I am sure there are many who will admit that they are not perfect. Who admit they have sinned. Even those who have asked to be forgiven from the ones they sinned against. So even like this, we are alike
Greetings Samsara15
Your comments are a litle off subject, but then again so are mine I suppose. You must feel it is important that you relate what is on your mind in this area, and for that reason I will not discount it. I hope I do not surprise you withthe fact that I agree with you. This country is primarly Christianand thus the majority. So it is logical to follow that statement with the fact that it is Christians who put people behind bars. I do not think there is any country or society that does not inforce Christian morality on others. I presume that when you speak of drug charges, you must mean users of drugs. Most who have been convicted of usuage find themselves in a recovery program as a sentence. Drugs (street drugs) are made illigal because of the harm they do to society in general and to the user personally. If you don't agree with this it is probably becuse you may be a user yourself. Please do not think that I am in any way standing in judgement. God Himself ...
... God himself lets me know that if I feel inclined to judge, I should run to the mirror and there I could spend hours doing just that. Have you ever seen drug usage do anything but bring or keep people down? There are orther moralities that society imposes upon other people. If you murder someone, you should be taken out of society before you harm another. If you steal from others, you must be informed that that causes grief, in the form of grief for yourself. If you are an adult and feel inclinded to molest a minor, you must be held accountable. The list goes on sam...there are many more, deciet, fraud, lying, ... the list goes on. Even though all this is around us and will never have a man made ending, still there is one Christian moral principle that cannot be imposed up you or any other. Christians are instructed to love all of those who are sinners. To love even their enemies.
Violent street crimes are usually committed by poor people. Non-violent white color crime is usually commit by richer, sometimes rich people.
As a way of cutting down violence, the government should give each perspective poor criminal 75% of the amount of money that it will cost the government to arrest, process, convict and incarcerate the person.
This is a win-win-win situation. It protects the victims from violent. It saves the government 25% of the criminal and judicial system budget. The people who get the money will have to pay taxes on the income.
See, I can write articles just as intelligent as the article on statistical crime breakdown by religion.
And Pagan,
If I might be allowed to disagree with you without offending you. Most religions follow that logic in one form or another but there is one religion that is wholy different. This religion believes that if you are not a follower, then you must be made to be a follower. If you cannot be made to submit then you must be killed. Their teachings speak of different methods of killing, that are acceptable. One method is to behead them while they are still alive. This religion teaches to hate all others who are not of this religion. To go out and make all others in this world submit. Teachings are spicific in addressing the fact that if one is not of this religion, there is no distinction between men, women, or innocent children, they are all guilty. This religion teaches that there is not much difference between the dog you own and the wife you own, or the children you own. Only the males are to be educated or have any position. There is only one religion that meets this criteria.
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66)
shall i convert to islam now? is that your goal w/this tripe?